may not not emerge from al qaeda.ebody may emerge from outside al qaeda. >> a final quick thought, pakistan is central to this story, isn't it? of course, a place where osama bin laden has been killed, but do you foresee real tension now and real difficulties for the pakistani government as a result of what's happened? >> everybody has been foreseeing real change and real difficulties for the pakistani government for about 50 or 60 years, and it's actually never brought the country down. it's a difficult place. it's pretty difficult to understand or even explain from outside. there will be difficulty, there will be all the normal sort of rhetoric and conspiracy theories and all the rest of it. but this will heal the very troubled pakistani-american relationship, and that alone will do a lot to stabilize the country. >> jason burke, thanks for that insight and analysis. i'm joined now from kabul by haroon, a political analyst who was an aide to afghanistan's former defense minister and leader of the northern alliance.

what can this tell us about al qaeda? these guys don't seem to be fighting a global jihad here. >> bergen: no. i mean, it looks like they're fighting a local insurgency. i mean, they probably want to kill some european or american soldiers if they can. they'd probably be happy with killing some afghan policemen. >> smith: so it's like a local franchise of... >> bergen: yeah, i think... >> smith: ...of al qaeda. >> bergen: yeah. i mean, there's all sorts of... you know, it's like being in the mafia. some people are made guys, some are sort of, you know... there's a very relatively small number of people who are actually really members of al qaeda. >> smith: what does it mean to be a member of al qaeda? >> bergen: well, in my view, a real member of al qaeda is somebody who's sworn a sort of religious oath of allegiance to bin laden not to... you don't swear an oath of allegiance to al qaeda; you swear a personal oath of allegiance to bin laden. it's not an easy thing to become a member of al qaeda. there are tens of thousan

>> al-qaeda is al-qaeda. and it's the group that he formed and it is the problem that we have had to deal with now as you note here for many years. the distance between us and the muslim world or in particular in some cases the arab world continues to grow. it has not narrowed arab spring as not won us great friends anywhere. and it's somewhat seen in the way that this killing has been reflected in arab thinking. you have many container activities to our narrative being developed. some say he wasn't killed, that's a minority view. many say he was assassinated, that he was executed, and it was ready to surrender. there are others who say that he was set up because zarqawi had a counter-approach to al- qaeda and wanted to assume leadership. all of it reflecting the fact that we are not trusted and we are not believed in the region we have a big problem in the region. it's not just al-qaeda, but it's also not the other muslim groups. it's our credibility and i think that to some degree the way this story has pla

al qaeda was in charge.ow the taliban are in charge. but the people who had me and everybody i talked to along the afghan/pakistani border all those many years i worked there said that there's really no difference at a fundamental level between the views of the pakistani taliban, and al qaeda. they will both will continue to fight. >> all right. cbs news consultant jerry van dyke. thanks so much for being with us. and his book "captive: my time as a prisoner of the taliban" is available in stores and online. >>> when we return, more of our special coverage on the death of osama bin laden. this is the "cbs morning news." moms love tulips. any second now, they are going to place me at the center of the table. edible arrangements bouquets beautiful like flowers, but unforgettably delicious, any second now... visit, call or go to ediblearrangements.com now you can brew over ice for delicious iced coffee or tea. hot or cold, keurig is the way to brew everyone's favorite cup in under a minute. choose. brew. enjoy.

what it tells us about al qaeda, al qaeda had this vaulting ambition, calla fate from indonesia to spainwith the waves of modernity sweeping the middle east there sits this old man with a tv remote and "the new york times" reported early on that one of the notebooks, handwritten in his handwriting, i gather, his project was to derail an american train on a bridge, perhaps coinciding with the state of the union address, you don't build a caliphate derailing american trains. it's a pathetic ambition. >> so, are they kind of pathetic? i know people are worried and want to know whether there are real threats to american interests out there. was osama bin laden really, really the mastermind still as the narrative is telling us right now, organizing, operating? >> it's very hard to imagine that in that compound where you see how pathetic it was and how carefully controlled the entry was to have it as a nerve center. it stretches the imagination. i think the fact is al qaeda hasn't been able to operate very well for the last eight years and bin laden has probably not been an influence. i think

al qaeda. (laughter) >> stephen: and you know who i blame? al qaeda. (laughter) >> stephen: just listen who they want to replace bin laden with. >> this is the man who many consider likely to get the job al zawahiri but also known as a pretty divisive figure within al qaeda. >> we are told that zoo what wir-- al zoo qa heri is not that popular in the organization. >> he is not charismatic. >> he is a prickly guy, unpleasant human being. >> stephen: come on. if one thing to be a mass murdering terrorist but do you have to be such a dick about it? (laughter) >> stephen: evidently, evidently being a terrorist leader is like anything else, you got to motivate the people below you, you know. hey, nice try on the underwear bomb. we'll get them next time. (laughter) >> stephen: grandpa's crabby beard over here is losing them the key demo. >> i was struck recently looking at a poll down in yemen and for al qaeda was more popular among older people than it was with people in their teens and 20s. >> step

who do you see as taking over the al qaeda command structure? how big a blow is this for al qaeda? can anyone step into his shoes? >> there is also another potent symbolic force. he is not in a command position. there are forces in yemen and other places that do not take hierarchical instructions from them but were nonetheless inspired. the question is whether the various separate cells -- i would say in yemen you have the most potent franchise operating without the direction. it continues to be extremely important. it is trying to take advantage of the tsunami of change in the middle east and position itself to maximize its ability to create regional and global have oc. the command center is decentralized. bin laden.was in londo you have groups modeled after them. they will continue whether they are around or not. >> thinks you for your insight. let's speak to general keane. he is a former u.s. army vice chief of staff. he is on the line from washington. give us your insights. obama said the operation had been in the works for a while. how do you capture and kill osama bin laden?

of al qaeda. and now the infrastructure's going to come tumbling down and we can see what else we can do. >> you think the infrastructure of al qaeda that bin laden was so important oz the linchpin or based on the fact that we got intelligence from where we killed him? >> both of those things. first off, osama bin laden is the idealogical grew to what al qaeda believes. al qaeda was not just the man, it was the entire infrastructure that he had built about this philosophy of taking over the muslim world and then the world and creating this clash of civilizations where islam will defeat democracy. not only was he overtaken by events recently in the middle east with democracy throughout the muslim word. which had nothing to do with al qaeda. not one word of his philosophy was used in that. he's dead. now his followers. his hangers on, his lieutenants they have to justify their very existence in an islamic world that has prufed that islamic democracy does not need violence, doesn't need anything that

driven by an al qaeda ideology. not bin laden personally. >> there's every reason to believe that now they are operating largely under their own banner. >> reporter: today al qaeda satellites are active in yemen, somalia, pakistan, iraq, jordan, indonesia and even the ungoverned western sahara desert. the most dangerous to americans, experts say, is the one in yemen. the u.s. backed yemeni government is so weak it can't control its territory. al qaeda in yemen also has a track record of attacking the united states. the underwear bomber in 2009. a computer printer bomb shipped to chicago a year later. al qaeda in yemen also has a charismatic recruiter, anwar al awlaki. a native of new mexico, al awlaki's sermons are widely distributed online. he could become the new voice of al qaeda, with an american accent. al awlaki is considered so important, the united states tried to kill him thursday with a drone attack, but missed. somalia is another powder keg. when we visited last year, it was clear that al qaeda inspired m

>> al-qaeda is al-qaeda. and it's the group that he formed and it is the problem that we have had to deal with now as you note here for many years. the distance between us and the muslim world or in particular in some cases the arab world continues to grow. it has not narrowed arab spring as not won us great friends anywhere. and it's somewhat seen in the way that this killing has been reflected in arab thinking. you have many container activities to our narrative being developed. some say he wasn't killed, that's a minority view. many say he was assassinated, that he was executed, and it was ready to surrender. there are others who say that he was set up because zarqawi had a counter-approach to al- qaeda and wanted to assume leadership. all of it reflecting the fact that we are not trusted and we are not believed in the region we have a big problem in the region. it's not just al-qaeda, but it's also not the other muslim groups. it's our credibility and i think that to some degree the way this story has pla

in the context of the presence of al qaeda payer. given the development of the last several months, the program could hardly be timelier and that also applies to the publication of ambassador hull spoke. i've not had a chance to read it myself. i very much look for to doing, but those tellme is a great read. so i'm sure we'll all feel that more so after this morning's discussion. our guide to this discussion is very distinguished retired diplomat, ambassador edmund hull in his new book, "high-value target: countering al qaeda in yemen" will be sorted the basic roadmap for the discussion this morning. ambassador hull served as ambassador to yemen from 2001 to 2004 and has extensive experience working on counterterrorism issues at the state department. those of you who were at the event this morning will have the same and more expensive bio details and data in the announcements. so is expensive credentials both in terms of the middle east, fluent arabic speaker in terms of counterterrorism. without further ado, i'll turn the podium ove

but two other al qaeda operatives were killed, we are told. all part of a stepped up campaign to go after al qaeda leaders around the world. this american-born cleric, it's believed he inspired the times square attack and may have been behind the failed underwear bomber attack christmas day in the united states. ellio? >> is it fair to say he's been part of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and they've been plotting nor attacks over the last year or two years? >> he's pretty much seen to be the operational leader of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. twice now, they have demonstrated the actual ability to reach out and touch the united states, if you will. in the airline attack and even though the times square plot failed, said to be the inspiration behind it. and that puts their power right on u.s. soil. elliot? >> that's exactly right. and they're operating in a failed state, which makes it easier for us to open rate there, but fewer constraints on them. now let's go back to the president. he discussed the osama bin laden attack while addres

not al qaeda." in fact, al qaeda has lately taken a more subordinate role in the fight here. while some taliban funding may come through al qaeda channels, much of it from the marketing of narcotics produceed in the afghan poppy fields, the al qaeda presence is down by u.s. estimates to perhaps 100 fighters. the death of osama bin laden was an opportunity for the taliban to distance itself from al qaeda if it had wanted to. thus far, it has not, and this war in the post-bin laden era is looking a lot like the war when he was around. but the killing has inflamed other internal afghan passions over whether to try to entice the taliban to the negotiating table. president hamid karzai has called the insurgents brothers and said there could be talks if they laid down their arms. it's a suggestion that has infuriated his political opponents, who say proposing talks makes the government look weak and the taliban strong. >> what we are against is any method, any process, which can lead to the strengthening of the taliban without getting us any closer to achieving peace. >> reporter:

we worry because al qaeda has ma metastasized. it's a great row leaf to know this man is no longer walking. >> when you saw the president take the podium, was it what you thought? >> no. i thought it would come years ago and the announcement would come from president bush. but i have to say, i was thrilled and i was rooting for him tonight, the way i rooted for the president on that day because we are one country. and i think that our military deserves -- deserved the credit he gave them tonight. i was very happy to hear him say that because these guys have wanted him so bad. i mean, i'm talk about bin laden. so, i was thrilled that they could do an up close and personal attack rather than getting him from the skies with a predator. >> and i don't know if you saw as we were on earlier tonight, you must have been thrilled to see that spontaneous scene at the white house have hundreds have started to gather and sing the star spangled banner. >> i actually became very emotional hearing that. i wish i could be with them. the american

al qaeda central is still a threat. had been to an al qaeda training camp and was getting direction from the core leadership of al qaeda. but that's an exception and the kind of threat we have looked at here in the u.s. over the last several months and years as not so much directed by bin laden but by either splinter groups or home grown terrorists. you won't see any change in the threat othe u.s. and no threat in the response. >> pete williams in washington for us tonight. thank you very much. i want to go ahead and replind all of you. this major development in the hunt for the moist wanted man in the world, osama bin laden announced dead by the president this evening, killed by u.s. special operations forces. saying president obama called to inform me that u.s. forces killed osama bin laden. i congratulated him and the men and women of our military and intelligence communities who devoted their lives to this mission. this achievement marks -- the fight against terror goes on but america has sent an unmistakable messag

the al qaeda narrative was playing out. interestingly, in egypt and north africa, i do see growing strength of for the kind of islam that bin laden embraced. you see when women wearing the full veil in a way they never would have before. that kind of faith is very much alive. >> that is an interesting complexity. is it possible that the arab spring might have prepared much of that part of the world for the message and ideals that bin laden espoused? >> what we saw during the tahrir square revolution was a country come together to see the divisions of religious, economic, political not the way and a national self assertion. if that spirit remains strong in egypt and these other countries, you can be hopeful that the al qaeda idea that that notion about change would be defeated. if that democratic revolution falters, if there is economic chaos in egypt, if there is insecurity in the streets, the world will have an appeal. just as the taliban had an appeal. these fundamentalists will have an appeal in egypt. >> the detailed --

there are fractures inside al qaeda between the gulf arabs and the egyptians. the likely successor is an egyptian, ayman al-zawahiri, so let's see how this plays out. it could very likely... it could very well not go smoothly. >> rose: it's also sounds like people might be willing to talk more if they're in competition for leadership. >> well, you see those kinds of fractures. you see an organization that ha discipline begin to lose that discipline. i think the folks at the agency and the other parts of the intelligence community are looking for advantage now. if there were a military engagement we'd be in the pursuit phase and trying to take advantage of what's happened so far. >> rose: what was the exact role of the c.i.a. here as far as you know and the exact role of the navy seals and the exact role of the department. >> the as far as i know, charlie, the role of the.i.a. d the intelligence community was the precise almost exquisite intelligence that pinpointed this location and gave us a high probability that bin laden would be there. the role of the seals

>> well, obviously, it's a blow to al qaeda. but we have to remember and we said this over and over that bin laden himself was certainly -- he was the symbol of al qaeda and terrorism, but it was more of a movement now, in other words, the cancer cells had metasticized. we still have a very dangerous world out there and there are still cancer cells that exist in various parts of the globe that we have to be very, very vigilante as secretary clinton said. >> former defense secretary william cohen, great sfoeft have this morning as we cover this breaking news right here on msnbc and our coverage continues right after this. i said to myself, "if she can do it, i can do it." weight watchers pointsplus makes you slow down and think about the things that you put in your body. on weight watchers, our family and friends have lost over a thousand pounds. i still can't believe it. ♪ and i'm feeling good ♪ and i'm feeling good go on, join for free. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. matter which position i am in i wake up fe

officer who said that the unit was respble for trying to track down al qaeda al qaeda al qaeda.s now a professor of security studies at georgetown university and the author of the book "osama bin laden." he says osama's death is a success to the current u.s. administration. >> i think the men and women involved in the ground in this operation deserve high praise, and it couldn't be -- there couldn't be better news at the moment, but i think we all need to keep in mind, as your last clip said, that bin laden is an idea as much as an organization, and it's very much much more difficult to kill an idea than it is a man. unfortunately, for us and the americans and their allies, we still have a very long hill to climb. >> explain to us the kind of obstacles that you and your team met in trying to track down osama bin laden. after all, this search has taken over nine years. , it's taken 16 i was very fortunate. i ran operations very early in our effort against osama bin laden, and between may of 1998 and may of 1999, we were able to pinpoint him on 10 different occasions, and mr. clin

they say america had no right to kill the al qaeda leader. now they promise to avenge his death. >> i don't think this will and the jihad. -- i don't think this will end the juhad. >> the confirmation of its leaders death could dispel growing doubts and conspiracy theories in pakistan and elsewhere. at the same time, the terror network about to continue its campaign against the u.s. and its allies. and washington is taking those threats seriously. when u.s. special forces stormed the hideout, they seized computers and documents that contain details of the ongoing danger. the terror network was reportedly considering targeting the u.s. rail network this year, 10 years after the september 11 attacks. washington says it is examining the evidence, but says there is no immediate threat. >>> the u.s. is continuing to launch missile attacks inside pakistan against suspected al qaeda and taliban fighters. up to 17 people have been killed near the afghan border, the first such attack since the raid that killed osama bin laden, which pakistan condemned

it is still al qaeda. it is still the extremists, the jihadists, who, you know, haven't shifted from their position because bin laden's been killed. i think always safer because of the operation to take down bin laden. i think we are in a number of respects. in part, it will be due to this information that we were just discussing. there is the potential, we don't know that, but there is the potential for enormous amount of actionable intelligence directed toward individuals that perhaps before now we didn't have a lead on, understanding of their financial issues, communications patterns, training and safe house locations. there is a lot of information that could ultimately make us much safer because it will lead to a speedier takedown of al qaeda as an organization. >> do you think, mike, we would have learned anything farther had osama bin laden been taken alive or was he the kind of al qaeda operative leader that would never have given things up? >> that's a great question. it is one of those questions t

and they tell us we could gather all of the known al qaeda at al qaeda and afghanistan in this room yet we are spending ten or $12 billion a month in a war with the taliban which i've asked this basic question can we achieve what we want to achieve in afghanistan without defeating the allin? >> we can achieve that if we have a stable government in afghanistan that includes part of the taliban and that doesn't post al qaeda. if we can get an agreement where the taliban can meet certain basic conditions the can be part of the government and they do not host al qaeda than our interests are served. >> we are in the position we've pushback our troops and the have succeeded in pushing back enough but we are now in a strong enough position to enter the negotiations will not be the karzai government. it will be a coalition government with a set of conditions allow us to dramatically pulled down our forces. but we have had to push back for counter insurgency because of what we lost through the pure counterterrorism strategy and we need to move to the political face. >> i couldn't agree more. >>

steve call, the author who knows al-qaeda so well, asked about what al-qaeda is still capable of. this is what he said in part. >> al-qaeda is a resilient organization but it is not stredistred i spreading or growing so it has the capability of carrying out attacks that we saw christmas before last where al-qaeda almost blew up an american airliner with several hundred people on board. once in a while it could kill hundreds of people. that ought to get our attention but it need not be the basis for organizing every aspect of our national life or our national defense. >> do you agree with that or not? >> i don't know if i were to agree it's not spreading. i think if you look over the last few years, you've seen a greater presence with al-qaeda or affiliation with al-qaeda in north africa, obviously in yemen and somalia and even parts of central africa. we don't know what the strategy of going for the big attack, which we always assumed was a core element of the strategy, was delivered by bin laden personally. now that he's gone, there may be an opportunity for others who have diffe

was this a death blow to al qaeda? >> i think at this point, we can't declare al qaeda strategically defeated. they continue to be a threat to the united states, but we have taken a really important milestone in terms of taking down this organization. now -- >> are they a leader of this operation at this point? >> at this point, as an organization, they'll have to work through some sort of succession and ayman al zawahiri -- >> al zawahiri, who it's coming out according to intelligence officials, may not be a popular figure within al qaeda. >> our assessment is he is not anywhere near the leader osama bin laden was. >> and therefore, can al qaeda still be as potent without a strong leader like bin laden was? >> i think it's a real blow. let me say two things about that. number one, we assessed at the end of last year, given the efforts we undertook at beginning of the administration, following on the efforts of the prior administration, that al qaeda was in the weakest shape it had been in since 2001 but still a danger