the problem with bowles simpson and he said parenthetically i love alan bowles and simpson -- you have heard this song before, haven't you? >> yes, the music. >> rose: i loverer and alan simpson, the problem is, it didn't tackle healthcare entitlements those are the drivers of our debt, i don't want to sign an agreement i know ducedoesn't picks the problem. >> he made that point crystal clear during our discussions. we cut medicare and medicated, medicaid by about $485 billion over ten years with the hopes that that would slow the rate of growth of medicare to gdp plus one. and then we said gosh if that doesn't work if that is not a deep enough cut then what we have to do is take more drastic steps and one of those drastic steps would include a consideration of a premium support plan like paul recommended or other options but we have to slow the rate of growth to gdp plus one, paul would rather have us go to something like his premium support plan from day one. >> rose: could you support a premium support plan? >> only, only if by making the appropriate cuts now we couldn't slow the ra

we are joined this evening by alan simpson the former senator and erskine bowles, the former chief of staff of president clinton. >> we face the most predictable and also luckily the most avoidable economic crisis in history. nobody disputes the arithmetic, fiscal path we are on is simply not sustainable and the deficits are like a cancer, they are really going to destroy the country from within. and the arithmetic is easy to understand. and if you take just last year, charlie you don't have to go back 20 years ago or 20 years hence, 100 percent of the revenue that came into the country, every single dime of it was spent last year on interest on the debt and these mandatory spending, mandatory spending is principally the entitle programs, medicare, medicaid, social security that means every dollar we spent last year on these two wars, on homeland security, on education, on infrastructure. >> rose: money we didn't have. >> yes. it was borrowed. >> rose: we would have to borrow it. >> half was bore red from foreign countries, that is like crazy, so at the end of this year, you know, we

[laughter] i've known alan simpson for just over 50 years. i grew up in cody, wyoming, near al. i heard all the stories when i was a kid, and then i tried to do it myself a few years later. [laughter] he helped me out of that hole. [laughter] i worked 18 years for al, all 18 years i was press secretary and then chief of staff, responsible for all mistakes. [laughter] and when al went to retire and went to the harvard, i went to the smithsonian and was in charge of government there for a while. then my wonderful wife, rebecca, who is right here -- [applause] i'm telling you, i could not have been this good without becky. she did, she proofed and she researched and she put up with me being up at 4:00 in the morning, and she is amazing. so we were, retired, went overseas and did a bunch of work with charities and children and blind people, lepers, and came back and ended up on a sailboat, and one day in 2005 the phone connected for some reason to some island tower, and it rang. and it was al simpson, and he said these guys want to write the story of my life. and they don't know me

i don't like his supporting the commission to deal with the deficit and the national debt, alan simpson. right now, i'm citizen arlen specter. and i'm going to look at the situation and make an independent judgment. >> senator, can i hold your book while i ask you a question? >> oh, yeah. >> so, senator arlen specter author of "life among the cannibals." >> if you hold my book, a answer your request he. >> senator santorum has said now that he regrets helping you -- supporting you, helping your campaign. do you regret helping put two conservatives on the supreme court? >> well, i'm rethinking that. i'm still watching. i will say this about roberts and alito. i'm disappointed in their testimony before the judiciary committee. they both promised to follow precedent and to respect congressional fact finding. and their decision in citizen united was a 180 degree turn. they disregarded recent supreme court decisions. they disrared 100,000 page record. they didn't live up to what they testified to in the confirmation. >> that's not enough for you to say you made a mistake in championing their

. >>> my next guest is according to former senator alan simpson, the most powerful man in america today, he is not the american president, but if he were to run for that position, simpson says, his platform would be no taxes under any situation, even if your country goes to hell. i'm talking about grover norquist, the author of the taxpayer protection pledge, which seeks to oppose any net tax increases. it has been signed by 95% of republican congressmen and all but one of the original 2012 republican presidential candidates. grover norquist joins me now. >> good to be with you. >> so let me ask you -- >> sure. >> -- about the history of the last 20 or 30 years, and ask you whether you feel some responsibility for this. here's how i see it. the republican party under ronald reagan, subsequently under gingrich, which confronting george bush senior, has pushed aggressively for cutting tacks, no new taxes, many of the kinds of things you have argued for. it has been unable for whatever reason under republican majorities, under democratic majorities, under divided or shared government to cu

. >> rose: but there was a proposal laid out by alan simpson and erskine bowles. >> that was a good proposal i thought it should have been adopted but the failure to adopt that, i think was on the part of the administration who refused to back their own commission. >> but they say they've come around now. that's the argument they made. >> well, after the election. after the election let's hope... >> rose: but not where they're prepared to cut entitlements and you are prepared to say to america we have to cut entitlements... >> absolutely. >> at the same time we raise revenue. are you prepared to say we have to raise revenue? >> if i were king i'd say we've got to get this entitlement spending under control and we've got to raise revenues but when we raise revenues, congress that's it. we're going to raise the revenues but you're not going to spend more in addition to that unless there's some provision made for that amount of spending. >> you have to have deficit reduction but at the same time you have to have things that will encourage growth as well. you have to have an investment in the fu

that's why i will speak later on with alan simpson and bowles. we have to say call your representative, the president, senators congressman, say i want a concrete solution. it may not be a solution i like. you have to come up with something that actually balances the budget and neither party at neither end of pennsylvania avenue have done that. they keep promising everybody something for nothing and unfortunately as you see in europe, something for nothing doesn't exist and eventually countries get into real trouble. we are in somewhat trouble right now. one of the reasons that we have this high unemployment rate is the companies are afraid to make investments. banks are afraid to make loans because they don't see leadership. they don't see a solution to our problems. >> with respect to president obama's proposal and the buffet rule. you believe when the president says it's about fairness, it's not about fairness? >> buffet issue is we want people to invest. investment creates jobs. investment creates a tax base. we lower the taxes on capital gai

erskine bowles and alan simpson who chaired the debt commission both together issued a written statements we are today guarantees a financial collapse that could impact every person in america and deeply impact our ability to have healthcare in this country. we have to recognize the house of representatives, republican controlled house will unveil a budget plan on wednesday that will be the senate is not going to bring up a budget. the democratic leader has said it is foolish to have a budget. so we will go for the third consecutive year without even attempting to pass a budget. supposed to be out of the committee by april 1st. supposed to be passed by april 15th. the house is going to do it. they're going to step up to the plate and way out like they did last year a plan that will change the debt course of america and put us on a sustainable path so we don't have to fear financial collapse and they are going to look at this legislation and it can't be imposed. we do not have the money. it will make health-care worse as we heard but more than that even if it were a good idea, a nice thin

fact is that president obama for at least four months decides not to meet with erskine bowles or alan simpsont and sent the signal all over washington that the president was taking a step away from it. it wasn't until much later he decided to get religion. the answer is can you put together a new congress if he is re-elected or can mitt romney if he's elected put something that will throw in tax reform like simpson/bowles? >> let's sure hope so, because i think there's a real possibility here that unless -- unless we can configure that kind of package we're going to have a rolling set of two- or three- or four-month debt limit extensions through 2013 and that would create anxiety and uncertainty that no one needs. we absolutely need a big deal to come together and, again, with the congress of tw or three decades ago it would have been virtually guaranteed, today given there's no middle, it's much harder but necessary. >> this is what is going to cause the drama early next year. >> i want to pin john down on how high you would like marginal rates to go. 26% is simpson/bowles, let's say you got

entitlement reform in that time that i think when you could do, i think that first and balls and alan simpson did a surface by setting up a free market and if you don't agree with the specifics but if you don't agree on the specifics i think they did the country a tremendous service setting up a framework that ten years was to get to the point where the debt to gdp ratio stabilize and then slide against the decline. i feel he could not do the tax reform, i agree with that. but you could, i think, greg, put together a structure of changes that would get you to a ten year program that stabilizes debt to gdp with a few simple measures, and you'd probably want to defer the implementation of that program for a couple of years to give the recovery more time to get traction and you certainly want to have robust public investment within that context, because as others can tell you, we've got to have infrastructure, we've got the basic research, we've got to have a whole host of other programs if we are going to be dependent. and i think you could do that. if it takes a few months in 2011 to do that,

erskine bowles and alan simpson, who chaired president obama's debt commission, both together issueda more predictable financial crisis. and what they told us was, spending as we are today, running up debt as we are today guarantees a financial collapse that could impact every person in america and deeply impact our ability to have health care in this country. so i think we have to recognize that the house of representatives, the republican-controlled house, tomorrow will unveil a budget plan. the senate on wednesday, they'll -- the senate is not going to bring up a budget. the democratic leader has said it's foolish to have a budget. so we'll go for the third consecutive year without even attempting to pass a budget. it's supposed toking out of the committee by april 1, supposed to be passed by april 15. the house is going to do it. they're going to step up to the plate and they're going to lay out like they did last year, a plan that would change the debt course of america. a plan that would put us on a sustainable path so that we don't have to fear financial collapse. and they're

but what you could do, i think erskine bowles and alan simpson's did our country and enormous system by setting up the framework. even if you don't agree with the specifics i think they did the country a tremendous service by setting out a framework. so that framework as you all will remember was 10 years to get to a point where the debt-to-gdp ratio first stabilized and then slightly begins to decline. i think you could not do the tax reform, i agree with that. but you could i think, greg, put together a structure of changes that would get you to retain your program that stabilize the debt to gdp, that with simple measures. you probably want to do for the implementation of the program for a couple of years to give the recovery more time to get traction. you certainly i at least think you would want to have robust public investment within the context, because as bernie schwartz and others can tell you, we've got to have infrastructure, we got the basic research. we've got to have a whole host of other programs if we're going to be competitive. i think you could do that. if it takes y

simpson-bowles? >> no. >> when i look at the one-page summary and your 98-page report, you're 80% overlap. >> alan and erskine i really like the guys a lot. i'm friends with them. what i didn't want to do was to go to the country and suggest i'm fixing the problem like with simpson-bowles when i'm not, when it doesn't include healthcare. simpson-bowles is silent on those. alice rivlin and i had an amendment to this, to complete the package to have fundamental healthcare entitlement will reform. that was rejected by the elected democrats and as a result it wasn't passed. i didn't think this fixes the problem. simpson-bowles has a lot of good things to it and i put a lot of in our budget. but it doesn't fix the problem. i want to fix the problem. i want to stop this debt crisis. i want to stop medicare from going bankrupt and compromising the security of many seniors. >> a lot of people are saying that your plan would hurt the seniors. kaiser permanente, 70% of americans are satisfied with medicare and satisfied with what they get out of medicare. what do you say to them? it sounds like what you're trying to do

and last year after the erskine bowles from your state and alan spimp son frosimpson from wyomie together with the bowles-simpson report, there was a pretty big effort in this body to try to adopt the principles that were laid out there. as a matter of fact, 32 republicans and 32 democrats sent a letter to the president asking him to embrace those. later on, there was another effort put in place by -- a super committee wasupercommittee and numbers of people on both sides of the aisle that this supercommittee really do something outstanding for our country and reduce the deficit by $4 trillion, if possible. my point is, is that there's been a lot of bipartisan efforts towards reducing our deficit and yet the only thing that we've done thus far, the only thing that has any meat on it at all was the budget control act, which was passed on august the 2nd. the budget control act was passed in a trade, if you will. at that time, the country's debt was beyond the debt ceiling that was allowed by law and so in order to raise the debt ceiling, there was an agreement reached by this body to lower the amount of spending th