that is alan waxman who things higher for longer interest rates is on the back of that and can have rippleffects across the economy, particularly when it comes to the property market. >> the last few years, we have not really done that much because without valuations. way too speculative -- valuations got way too speculative and we are sitting with a pretty clean portfolio and there are opportunities across the whole commercial real estate spectrum not only in the u.s. but in europe. sonali: are there ports you that's points you avoid with worries about the work from home and the impact it may have on big cities? are there parts of the area you avoid? alan: in general, there are a measly different risks as long as something is not binary risk, we can generally present, whether it is real estate, corporate, it culture, that is our job, so as long as it is not a stroke of the pins, we are looking across a whole swath of commercial real estate. sonali: is there an easy way you can say you can get into the office but for the borrower and can be expensive? alan: in a new money situation, if you