get over it. >> alberto mora, america did it. >> that's ridiculous.irst of all, i'll bear witness to this, many individuals at the pentagon also were instantaneously opposed to using torture as a weapon of war. every senior military lawyer i worked with during my entire five years at the pentagon was of the view that the use of enhanced interrogation as they called it was torture and was illegal and was counter product and made america weaker, not stronger, and violated our values and our principles. that has all proven to be true. the torture program that cia initiated, and other civilians in the military and caused enormous strategic damage to the country, including to our values. let's remember, when we defend the united states we defend not only the people we defend our freedoms and our values. when we tortured, we damaged our freedom and our values, and it brings to mind the saying of albert camu, that defending a democracy, we need to take care that we don't adopt the weapons that we're seeking to destroy in order to defend. torture is and was t

alberto mora, welcome to the program.hank you, christiane. >> so you really have been leading the charge. and you do it from a very particular advantage point, as a legal scholar, as a m uber of th. government, the u.s. military, given that you were general counsel at that time. and you were very early if i might say whistle-blower against iese techniques. what do you thi going to be the root for gina haspel? do you think she can survive this kind ofuestioning right now? >> she shouldn't. as we know senator mccain last night came out against thisti nomi. i think when the senators reflect on that position and tha moralhority that senator mccain brings to this question, i think any of them who might be tempted to vote for her might t reconsidt position. >> so let us just read what he actually did y. i believe that gina haspel is a patriot who loves our countr and has devoted her professional life to its service and defense. however, her rol in overseeing the use of torture is disturbing and her refusal to acknowledge tortur

real insiders, alberto mora, human rights policy at the kennedy school and former general counsel for the u.s. navy. michael baker, former cia covert operations officer started in training with gina haspel. now president of diligence llc, global intelligence and security firm. important stuff to talk about. start withalberto. back in march when gina haspel was nominated, it read she bears great responsibility for a program famous for savagery and consistent ill judgment. also nearly 100 former ambassadors echoed some of your concerns. did you hear anything today as you listened to this hearing that would convince you otherwise, she is the person to lead the cia? >> not yet. the issue of torture was danced around but didn't close with it. the issue, whether she tortured or not. if she tortured, managed, she's disqualified from being not only director of the cia or holding any position of responsibility in the federal government. and we didn't get into the details of the abuse given to the detainees under her direct supervision. that's the crux of the issue before the senate today. >> d