alcoa stood out. these sanctions were going to work in favor of alcoa and u.s. giants. the sector went down, the white line. alcoa went up, prices went down, the market got this wrong, we got a lesson last night from the alcoa ceo. customers were talking about leaving the united states. the aluminum story is not working. butill produce in china, this story is not the way it was meant to work. this chart highlights how the markets can occasionally get it wrong. decision time. hillary clark, drumroll. i don't think either of those charts for that useful. [laughter] >> matt's delivery was far better. guy, i was really disappointed. , bring your a game. >> that was rough, guy. from?re are you >> the great state of ohio. >> it was loyalty for ohio. -- was not loyalty for ohio. >> i am shocked it is not. buckeye fans stick together. she said this was not useful. we will try and be more useful next time. you can follow hillary's clock -- charts on bloomberg and see which ones you prefer. i think this cloud is always useful. let's guy get a market check for viewers right now. t

aluminum tariffs also take a bite out of alcoa.pany lowered its profit -- 2018 profit forecast. >> we are reducing our 2018 outlook to reflect recent market prices. tariffs on aluminum imports, increased costs, and operational -- energy costs, and operational impacts. alix: joining me is our metals and mining reporter. you spoke to alcoa's ceo before the results were announced. what did you learn about the impact of the tariffs? has an actualt impact. we were going into the earnings call and talking in the background, saying there is probably going to be focus on tariffs. when i spoke to roy harvey, he launched straight into it and said listen, we are going to put it all out there. we are taking a $15 million cost on the tariffs because we produce more aluminum in a canada then the u.s. in the last earnings were or, -- report they did think canada , would be excluded. now everybody has put that into their model, saying no, it has not been excluded. that hits them on the front-end. that was part of the reason why theirad to downgrad

alcoa cuts its 2018 forecast million in levees. will other executives be worried about trade as earnings season kicks into high gear? we will be speaking exclusively with of the unilever ceo. manus: a very warm welcome to "daybreak europe." we are waiting for a number of different companies to come in with their results. let's get straight to anna. anna: let's do that. i have numbers coming through. the nordic region's largest bank. they are talking about signs of improving momentum across various businesses this morning. also talking about the ct one ratio. 19.9%. interest income, 1.70 billion. improving momentum against households.d this is interesting because we heard similar positive comments from others and the scandinavia week.g sector this this is a business focused on revamping its operations and repairing and investing in the digital age. we talked to the ceo about this in the past and will continue to do so. the ceo joins us exclusively for an interview around 6:30 a.m. u.k. time. stay tuned this hour for that conversatio

i tell you why it's a great question because i literally don't know after what happened with alcoa, i know what they source and need next week we have to listen to that quarter this is exactly -- james brings up exactly what i'm worried about. i don't know the answers to ati. i will do home work but things are more difficult in the steel industry to figure out to shawn in illinois >> caller: hey, jim, boo-yah, thanks for taking my call. >> boo-yah >> reporter: my question is about unit corporation, i bought that stock a year ago, up nearly 50%. a couple weeks ago you had a segment on oil and gas you shared bullish views, especially for those who were in exploration. it was great for me because it was in april or so they sold a $300 million stake in their business and said they will use it to boost production having said that, seems like analysts are concerned with this one. >> call me a bull. i like the stock and sector. i think you're barking up the right tree it always surprises me when people say this is up 20%, too late i think there is more upside >>> tariffs make it harder to bu

alcoa was front and center. here is roy harvey on the call yesterday. >> we are reducing our 2018 outlook to reflect recent market on aluminumffs imports come increased energy costs, and operational impact. alix: is this the beginning? is not surprising alcoa is seeing the impact of tariffs. they are the front line here. it will be more interesting to hear what industrial companies have to say when we get those numbers this weekend early next week. that is the . next line. it is looking for some products currently made in china. it is valuing the economics. you look at alcoa trading over the last 12 hours, lower, then back to where we are started. i wonder how much this is priced in now. >> i think a lot was priced in. a lot of folks see this as something that can be handled. on someheard this conference calls. it is this something where people say it is bad and a zero-sum game? it will be interesting to see who benefits from this, what countries benefit, what states in the united states may benefit from it. we

alcoa used to pick up earnings, but not anymore.be about trade and what is happening with pricing. they had their plans up in canada. and, new reporting on thursday, trade on steel and aluminum. and on friday, oil services start to come out. baker hughes and others. which will benefit, domestic services, or international? that does it for "commodities edge." tune in every thursday at 1 p.m. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ ♪ lisa: from new york city, i am lisa abramowicz. this is 30 minutes dedicated to fixed income. this is bloomberg "real yield." ♪ lisa: coming up, the trade war heats up. the question now becomes is it time to buy bonds? plus, the leverage loan market is getting hotter but for how much longer?

i think alcoa has been a clear-cut case.really feeling that impact of the trade from canada into the u.s. rio tinto, we heard from them earlier this week. they had production numbers out. is receiving tinto for its aluminum is higher this half than it was in the same period of the year earlier. to be doings seems particularly well because it had a lot of premium products. in terms of china, trade data out last week showed the first half of the year china exported more aluminum than it ever had. we are not seeing a curving of exports from china. shakeout iswider that it is something we still have to look at and monitor. it is not clear-cut what the impact will be yet. ramy: we have new production numbers. energy producers coming out with numbers. what are the main takeaways? dave: that is right. a flood of data this morning. it producesun off, all manner of commodities. one of the key highlights, they reported a 44% drops -- drop. that is largely the result of a mine outage it had in australia earlier in the year. for investo

the last one was alcoa and alcoa had one of its best years in the ensuing 12 months.e stock peaked in 2000 and in 2007 made a lower high and then a lower high again two years ago. at some point, this is bottom fishing, it has the prospects that it is putting in a bottom. that's my hunch. >> mel, can i make a quick clarification. nelson peltz has been in general electric so i did -- my point is, you haven't seen the carl icons or ackman's. i'm sorry that i misspoke, but my point should still be well taken i think. >> one other thing we'll just take a look at here and that is ultimately when you're trying to make a directional bet in situations like this where it either has reached a bottom to carter's point or is just going to continue a lot lower because it has been moving, this is the case where an options premiums might be a little bit higher than they have been but they're actually still a fair price to buy at that level. that's one of the reasons we're not looking at doing something complicated like buying a spread. 30 cents not a lot to risk. >> all right. cable

alcoa did also cut their full-year adjustment and issued a guidance in part because of this.n to about $3.1 billion to the whole year, about $500 million lower than the previous forecast. the company did say the supply chain continues to face insurgencies because of these tariffs as well. some aluminum supply disruptions. but if there is a but here, not all analyst think it is as bad as the share price today is making it look. we heard from a few analysts, morgan stanley said the downside risk is limited really because they are looking at a potential dividend. goldman sachs saying the same thing, they are looking for a share buyback. saying own b.i. analysts the second half would be better than the first half, so maybe some good news. and it was pointed out earlier -- it was pointed out earlier that all companies have talked about terrace, but only alcoa has shown it in the numbers so far. last month, we have heard a lot of talk with -- theysay they have in might potentially be forced to cut jobs. tyson foods, saying they will be facing some day-to-day in certainty. they said

alcoa is based in pittsburgh. trump won pennsylvania.over to china trying to preserve deals there that have been harmed due to the chinese trade war. trump won iowa. is this what those voters signed up for? paul: alcoa is a company that was supposed -- an american aluminium maker. it is the kind of company that trump said the tariffs would help. in the earnings call this week, you have them saying the tariffs are hurting. their earnings are down 15% or so. so i guess -- and you see this with the domestic companies and the foreign automakers who invest here. everybody really except for the united autoworkers which has i would say issued tepid support for the tariffs, but everybody else against it. can trump still move ahead in the face of that opposition? >> well, i think it depends on what happens to the stock market, paul. the one indicator that he watches very closely. look, the largest plant in the world is in spartanburg, south carolina, a district that trump won with more than 60%. now, we haven't seen the effects of these tariffs o

what was alcoa's read going to be.ry to sift through everything, but what we can tell you about ebay is it and therevenue forecast eps forecast for the full year did not top the average analyst estimates either. -- are not asor strong as they could be but a turnaround in the share. outlookfirmed the saying they topped revenue estimates 1.3%. julie: bringing the delivery process online, one of the most pressing issues. sarah, our opinion columnist has been writing about this and is joining us from washington. if you live in new york city, you end up ordering a lot of stuff online. a lot of companies have indeed gotten on data bandwagon. withare either partnering third-party delivery companies or brought things inside. as you point out, not everyone has caught on quite yet. why is this so important? >> basically because this is the only place where there can be any growth in the restaurant industry for the next several years. we've seen traffic is pretty stagnant at restaurants versus the last several years, and up until

comes to autos because autos are just a gigantic part of the european economy. >> you referred to alcoautting their ebitda >> it is difficult to -- you need greenfield aluminum plants. the president wants that to happen it will take six, seven years to do that. but i think if you start going down the path of changing the tariffs on the autos, then you are really going to have a smooth falling situation >> i can't believe he comes to the defense of google is argue because it fits the narrative of us versus them that the president has been laying out when it comes to europe which frankly he seems to think is more of a foe than many other countries that typically have been considered foes of the united states. and this -- where else was this going to go? not for long >> what's not for long >> it continues to just add -- we can go into the reasons why they chose to do this, but it lends into this narrative, where else is he going to go other than he is going to try -- there is going to be something punitive done here is. >> other than asml, a great company that makes great semiconductor equ

but alcoa's ceo did acknowledge that some u.s.ducers are benefiting from higher aluminum prices as a result of tariffs. though he does say smelters in america remain at risk because they're older and more expensive to operate than those in other nations. >>> sticking with tariffs, trade is a big focus at yesterday's delivering alpha conference. if you were not there, here's some of what you missed. ♪ >> it seem s like right now you have a bit of a trade war going on >> we haven't had a trade war in 50 years why? we never had negative interest rates in happ s is in half of e japan and never had globalization as far as it is. >> as far as we know, president xi does not wish to make a deal. we're waiting for him. >> the distance between the u.s. and china is further than people would hope for >> if the tariffs affect permanent change on the ability for u.s. companies to compete more successfully around the world, there's something inherently wrong with that a prolonged trade war will slow global growth. >> attendees also heard from s

take a look at alcoa, the winter of 2010 right up to february 2011 rising to there are 13,nice rise,not until the stock hit 17 it took a quick dive back to 15. no reason i could discern and then it quick le reversed and went rid back to 17. and then to 18 on the eve of the quarterly, and meaning the top and bottom leans most of the time that's all you can ask for. what worried me, though, is after the initial positive reaction, the stock then dropped to 16 and change on the news of the better than expected quarter. their it's back to 17 and i felt vindicated, come on. now they're ready to challenge at the 18 level. so i went and bought more. i went and bought more right there. i don't think so that 17 to $15 dive represented on the chart as a .a and b, then followed the run to c, 18, back to 16, d and finally 17e and you know what that is? that's a perfect head and shoulders pattern. yeah, just like they said. that is it that is the most frightening pattern in the entire short book and alcoa had traced it down just when i thought we were out of the woods what was happening the moveme

when to see it or an alcoa none of us could. have buffalo knock at the. steel sure all fled the line no need lou done some. yankee go mom playing on a soap well didn't suit the booze and was. truly an eleven vet and so make them eat. skin and of some enterprising. and smell of the mama financial male adoptee toward an impulse to. when i'm ready for. my house going to live in the. gun in the one of. the exhibits just not where you say ted it will mean been. there are those not going to . sit in the. city we turned on but about the safety looming that was lived with have also gone the light is abused him say a visit but he's not going. to get a book on. did you live by god. between the sin i live on the it doesn't believe in the month. mohammad in the middle. many day opted to. thank you suze orman's from the list of plans to salute the new live. in oman or somalia. the korean ship. and follow but i mean. it was one last abusiveness bombay. and within a also money it. all thought it was quite a guy is just so much. i don't know about. the office or the sort

producer of aluminum alcoa doesn't want the aluminum tariffs. the thousands of auto plants and other plants that use aluminum don't want the aluminum tariffs so who is asking for these aluminum tariffs? a second reason justifying tariffs is that other countries may have been unfair to the united states. there may be examples of that. but when did it become a good idea to solve your own problem by shooting yourselves in both feet at once? it's hard to see how raising our taxes and destroying our jobs is a smart solution to unfair trade practices. then there is the question of whether tariffs help auto workers or not. raising taxes and prices and selling fewer cars wouldn't seem to help the american auto worker. will it cause foreign companies to build more cars in the united states? well, that's already happening. the foreign manufacturers have been doing exactly what we asked them to do. they have moved here. they produce cars and trucks here. they export many of those cars and trucks and auto parts to other countries. today about half the cars

lingering global of theisputes with some pain reflected in earnings from america's top aluminum maker, alcoaa tumbles. it gets hit with a downgrade on model three concerns. we will speak with the analyst behind that call. u.s. markets closing in two time.time -- two hours' >> stocks looking at pretty much the same thing before those remarks, modest declines at this point.

like a human's head that is it that is the most frightening pattern in the entire chart book, and alcoad it out, just when i thought we were out of the woods what was happening during that period that the head and shoulders pattern flagged? aluminum quickly came into a glut starting the turn that kleinfeld worked so hard to execute. he could control his own company but not the price of the commodity itself it still is aluminum over the course of the next few years kleinfeld was able to rally off the lows, but that came only after complete completion of the brutal head and shoulders pattern from a few years before, one that cost the trust quite a pretty penny mae cull pal one of the thing i admire about their technicians is the inverse head and shoulders signals the opposite, a chance for glory at the beginning of 2013, lots of people thought the economy was taking off investors were running for the classic drug stocks. and caterpillar, united technologies, you know the kind of rotation, that kind is usually the death knell for stocks that typically go higher only when the economy is slo

alcoa is based in pittsburgh. trump won pennsylvania.o china trying to preserve deals there that have been harmed due to the chinese trade war. trump won iowa. is this what those voters signed up for? paul: alcoa is a company that was supposed -- an american aluminium maker. it is the kind of company that trump said the tariffs would help. in the earnings call this week, you have them saying the tariffs are hurting. their earnings are down 15% or so. so i guess -- and you see this with the domestic companies and the foreign automakers who invest here. everybody really except for the united autoworkers which has i would say issued tepid support for the tariffs, but everybody else against it. can trump still move ahead in the face of that opposition? >> well, i think it depends on what happens to the stock market, paul. the one indicator that he watches very closely. look, the largest plant in the world is in spartanburg, south carolina, a district that trump won with more than 60%. now, we haven't seen the effects of these tariffs on the

alcoa cutting its product -- 2018 profit forecast, the latest victim in president trump's trade battlechina's rising lng demands and how it can absorb the junk in u.s. exports. ♪ alix: i'm alix steel. welcome to bloomberg "commodities edge." it is 30 minutes of focused on the company's ph

earnings, next week we will hear from alcoa and tender morgan.l be about trade and what is happening with pricing. they had their plans up in canada. nucor reporting on thursday, trade on steel and aluminum. friday, oil services start to come out. baker hughes. which will benefit, the domestic services, or the international? that does it for "commodities edge," this is bloomberg. ♪ retail. under pressure like never before. and it's connected technology that's moving companies forward fast. e-commerce. real time inventory. virtual changing rooms. that's why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent network speed across multiple locations. every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. comcast business outmaneuver. ♪ julie: i am julie hyman, in for scarlet fu. this is "bloomberg etf iq," where we focus on the assets, risks, and rewards offered by exchanged rate funds. ♪ julie: flurry of fixed income. we will talk to a family office manager about how he is

earnings, next week we will hear from alcoa and tender morgan. -- tender morgan. up earnings, but not anymore. it will all be about trade and what is happening with pricing. they had their plans up in canada. and, new reporting on thursday, trade on steel and aluminum. and on oil services start to friday, come out. baker hughes and others. which will benefit, domestic services, or international? that does it for "commodities edge," this is bloomberg. tune in every thursday at 1 p.m.. this is bloomberg. ♪ phones have made our lives effortless. streaming "must see tv" has never been easier. paying for things is a breeze. and getting into new places is even simpler. with xfinity mobile saving money is effortless too. it's the only network that combines america's largest most reliable 4g lte with the most wifi hotspots and it can be included with xfinity internet. which could save you hundreds of dollars a year. it's a new kind of network designed to save you money. click, call or visit a store today. ♪ julie: i am julie hyman, in for scarlet fu. this is "bloomberg et

and alcoa cutting its 2018 profit forecast, the latest victim in president trump's trade battle.r everyone. cpi leader peter coleman talks about china's rising lng demands and how it can absorb the junk in u.s. exports. ♪ alix: i'm alix steel. welcome to "bloomberg commodities ed.

of alcoa saying global strategy is a political and business firm both with projects in the u.s. and the middle east and we also have mustapha question a political commentator joining us live from tehran welcome to all of you men to sell them in london first quarter the hoofy rebels trying to achieve here they are trying to impact on saudi oil. exports and also two sure that they have the up out of in yemen. or in the m.m. has to be closely for a solid any bia and the united arab emirates and the proof is out of trying to assure the united the saudi any be a and that continuing the order will not give them and the benefit in the future. to come to the negotiate the so they are using that as facts on the this is of saudi arabia and you. have to put pressure on the saudi government. in washington potentially what could this do to the oil price. i think definitely we should expect the oil prices continue to increase we've seen under the trump administration or a fourth of july weekend that oil prices got the prices at the pump for american citizens were the highest they have been in

they stopped from the dow and when you kicked out of school a lot of the trouble has been done and alcoane of its best years in the ensuing 12 months and the stock peaked in 2000 and made a lower high and a lower high again two years ago, at some point and it's bottom fishing. it has the prospects that it is putting in a bottom, and that's my hunch >> can i make a quick clarification. i did -- my point is you haven't seen the carl icahns and you haven't seen a lot of noise around the stock other than him and i'm sorry that i misspoke, but my point should still be well taken, i think. >> one other point is that ultimately, when you're trying to make a directional bet in situations like this where it either has reached a bottom to carter's point or it's just going to continue a lot lower because it really has been moving this is the case when options premiums might be higher than they have been historically and they're still a fair price to buy at this level and that's one of the reasons we're not looking at something complicated like looking at a spread. 30 times is not a lot to risk if y

alcoa angst -- the company cutting its 2018 profit forecast, the latest victim of president trump's tradee. room for everyone. woodside petroleum ceo peter coleman talks about china's rising lng demand and how it can absorb a jump in u.s. exports. ♪ alix: i'm alix steel, and welcome to "bloomberg commodities edge." it's 30 minutes focused on the companies, physical assets, and the trading behind the hottest

alcoa has been hit with millions on material it produces mostly in canada.ited higher energy costs and lower aluminum prices for the cut. >> we are reducing our outlook to reflect the recent market prices, tariffs on imports, increased energy, and operational impact. still: unilever is feeling the effects of a strike in brazil that held back sales. underlying has said sales grew one point 9%, compared with analyst estimates of 2.2%. the maker cited the effects of a labor dispute in the latin american country, where truckers walked off the jobs earlier this year to protest rising fuel prices. what we say is that the first half is a little slower. the second half a little faster. sidequarter, on the low because we have to deal with this enormous truckers strike in brazil. but we run the business for a little longer than a few weeks. the nordic region's biggest bank has reported profits exceeding estimates and committed to a forecast that it will make more money in 2018 about it did last year. 1.9 saw income growth to billion euros, beating estimates. in line w

when to sit around alcoa not the best keep the buffalo knock at the. steel you sure all fled but i know me too don sound. like you go mom good thing on a soap well didn't suit the booze and do it. through an eleven vet and so make them eat. the skin on the cement sufficing. and smell of the mama financial male adoptee taught in the post it. when i'm ready for. my house get a lift in the. gun and of the one of. the exhibits just not where you say ted it will it's mean been. does not want to. sit. at the end. to be turned on but about the safety looms lived with have also gone the light is abused him service but he's not going. to give up on. did you live by god. between the sin i live on all of us i'm of an avant. mood a moment in the middle of. many days. and just those moments when the least ponza cilla the new live. in oman or somalia. in trouble but i mean. it was enough complicity has been banished. and what's in a also money it. all thought it went quite a guy is just so much. i don't know about. the office or the sorts of. and on cup out on the c

we have already gone numbers from alcoa. and still waiting for numbers from rio tinto. and the index of metals, the bloomberg index of these industrial metals, again take a look at the bloomberg and you can see the one-day changes. this was the spike in april, this is the spike we see right now. and lastly, i will quickly call on audible. and we see a spike in those a-shares, as well as adco. shares spiking by about 3.7%. there is a report from politico that the trump ministry should plans on announcing today billions of dollars of aid to farmers come into this could be what is causing the spike, although i think the shares were already climbing earlier and now are further spiking. we will take in and bring you - - dig in and bring you more on the subsidy story. vonnie: julie hyman, thank you. global trade imbalances showing no sign of diminishing for the moment, it is a trend that could inflame tensions and curb the global growth. the warning issued by the international monetary fund. for more, we are joined by maury obstfeld, director of research at the imf in researc

. ♪ alcoa inc. cutting into 2018 product forecast, president trump's trade battle.nds. i'm alix steel welcome to commodities edge.

alcoa produces half of the aluminum produced in the united states. 46%. they have three smelters and one that is curtailed, which means it could open up if it wanted to. a 10% tariff tariff is not enough to offset the increased price of electricity. what going to do, go to 20, 30, 40? so that we have enough aluminum ingets made and the united states and at the same time continue to add to the price increases for automotive? >> the answer, there's no plan to go to 20, 30, 40%. >> what's the justification for any tariff on aluminum if it's not enough to create an incentive for aluminum companies to create more aluminum? >> i don't know about alcoa was situation specifically, but the calculation was made at the department of commerce that 10% tariff on aluminum at the margin would make a difference so that you end up with a sustainable aluminum industry in the united states. that was the calculation. >> i'd like for us to talk to them because that is in any sense at all because we only got seven smelters. we got one curtailed smelter. anybody knows smelters

protect the industry from foreign competitors, but instead they are taking a bite out of the earnings of alcoahe company says it is a "significant had went." this wasn't supposed to happen. >> no. but there is a fine tradition of coming out with very aggressive tariffs and sanctions, been backtracking quickly when you see it causes the economy to collapse. we saw that before were the tension went after one particular individual, and then they realized it would have this enormous effect on the rest of the world, and then everyone would suffer as a consequence. and i think -- we are heading down the same path here. ♪ >> political uncertainty in italy is rattling investors. there are reports that the finance minister might be forced to step down, as he disagreed with who would lead a particular bank with the two populist leaders in power. walk us through the events of the last 12 hours. >> well, this morning we came across reports that there were serious differences regarding the finance minister, and then there came a whole bunch of denials, and been a key matter happened. apparently the governm

alcoa and another company. i am talking about companies saying on their conference calls, so far i have counted three s & p 500 companies that mentioned tariffs. >> that made a good point about the intellectual properties. we'll debate whether the fed should exist in the first place. a lot of people say why is it here? it never helps the middle class. s are pretty much the same. but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. where we're changing withs? contemporary make-overs. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. who has the upper hand now? start winning today. book now

has a listen to what alcoa been saying.ould think they would be beneficiaries from the metal tariffs. unintended consequences are a big factor there with air canada plants . we are starting to see business push back against this trade story. indications are president trump will back off, but that is not what i am hearing overnight. i am hearing he will be pushing the trade front very much. do you think he will pay attention to what business is saying? geraldine: we do not know, and market reaction has been tame, that might empower him a little more. the establishment and political classes in the u.s., some people are starting to waive flags, and guardrails are coming. we saw in the senate a motion. in trade, we have to look at two different things. what is going on with china? and what is going on with the auto tariff? the auto tariff is still very much of a question mark. there is still room for them to carve out things. hurtfula little less than it would seem on the headline. on the chinese situation there seems to be a l

the pundits say they can't even hold out for a thousand days next up, remember when alcoa used to kick off earnings season now it's pepsico an extremely negative note from wells fargo about pepsico. this company has a lot of levers even the bears at wells admit the company could do something big to unlock value. you can follow along at madmoney.cnbc.com. i am concerned that a weak quarter could set the stock down hard unless the company addresses weaknesses tuesday is also a huge day for nordstrom which holds its first big analysts meeting the company offered very little explanation and said it didn't execute well, thanks for nothing. the stock fell, straight line, boom here we are back in the 50s. a bad meeting, we sold some shares for the trust this week you can see that from the club i have less faith in this company than i used to but it's hard to imagine them really screwing this meeting up, as badly as they did the conference call. that was one for the ages. wednesday, general mills holds an analyst meeting this is a concern for me it will be a test of the recession-proof stocks