alex cannon may have already been in front of her grand jury.ncern about his testimony or lack thereof, or the attorneys are gonna deal with it, probably, it has already rippled through the trump team. so it's just something, we the public, are learning, and it looks more and more from that information, like the department is working on very strong obstruction of justice case. this would fit right at that pattern. >> why? >> why? well, because the president -- you know at this point the department of justice is actually in the investigation. the president is telling someone to not honor, or be truthful about what you are turning over. he has dictated a statement that his lawyer is not gonna put his name on. they later will get somebody who will do a modified version of that. but it's part of a pattern, of obstructing the investigation. >> so, according to the report again your furred to alex cannon here, the former president asked this attorney, alex cannon to make a statement to the national archives about the documents. because it's an attorne

he also told alex cannon to issue two statements. one of them was to the press or the people, public and one was to the archives. what did he say that alex should say? >> so he wanted alex cannon, who was a trump lawyer, started working there in 2015, worked on his campaign, close with his family, to tell the national archives in a private message that he had returned all of the relevant documents and given them all back. and cannon said he was not willing to do that because he said he wasn't sure if it was true or not. he spoke to a number of trump advisers who said you should not make a definitive statement. they kept asking, have you given everything back? can you attest to the fact that you've given everything back? he couldn't do that. separately, alex wanted his press team to put out a public statement that said quote, he had given everything back. this is in response to a story i did in february, that trump drafted a statement, dictated it to aides himself saying i have returned everything and he asked his lawyers and others to

he is the very same alex cannon who testified to the january 6th committee, that he told white house chief of staff mark meadows, that there was no evidence of voter fraud in 2020 election. the papers say that both trump and cannon have yet to respond to specific questions about this document reporting, also today the national archives release previously unseen emails -- back in may of 2021. the emails indicate a letter from former president obama was missing, and so where those so-called love letters between trump and north korean dictator kim jong-un. in september of 2021, trump came close to tell you new york times reporter maggie haberman, that he did take some documents, before he decided to walk it back. >> did you leave the white house with anything in particular? are there any memento documents we took with you? anything of note? >> no, nothing of great urgency. i have great things though, you know, the letters to kim jong-un, letters, and many of them. >> you are able to take those with you? >> look at what's happening. no, i think that as -- in the archives. but most of it

the lawyer, named alex cannon, had become a point of contact for officials at the national archives whoo return presidential records he failed to turn over upon leaving office. cannon declined to convey trump's message to archives because he was not sure if it was true, the people said. but now we know. cannon's hunch was correct. despite what trump said, there was another set of documents turned over in june. and then stacks of documents seized by the fbi in august. and it does not stop there. "the washington post" sites people familiar with the matter in reporting this, quote, trump himself packed those january boxes. according to these source, the former president seemed determined in february to declare that all materials sought by the archives had been handed over. and now, again, that breaking news. trump and his team making a last-ditch desperate hail mary plea to the supreme court. it's where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "new york times" justice reporter katie benner is here. joyce vance is back. she is a former u.s. attorney and law profess

cnn can't confirm that and it's not totally clear who packed them, but be that as it may, alex cannon as a possible witness, he's an attorney. how hard would it be for justice to go to this attorney and say, hey, why wouldn't you say to the archives x, y and z? >> looking at talking to a lot of attorneys, i think. pat cipollone, pat philbin, christina and all of these folks in the sights of doj. some with potentially criminal conduct mostly as witnesses. it complicates. attorney-client privilege there and the exact thing it normally protects. communications between the lawyer and client, but here also you have an exception. a textbook case of this, because at least as reported, the client is saying to the lawyer, hey you know, i want you to help me do something that really is a crime, right? hiding these documents from the national archives. the lawyer says, no way. that's a case where admittedly after some litigation the court will say, crime fraud exception. those accusations can come out. >> a lot of it getting back to what trump knew, if trump knew it wasn't everything when he ask

the former president asked this attorney, alex cannon, to make the statement to the national archives the documents. because it's an attorney here, are there ways that the justice department can investigate it without hitting attorney-client privilege roadblocks? >> if you have an attorney unwilling to do something, while he may not have told the department of directly if so, others might have reported it for him. it doesn't sound like a privilege is raised here. he would be able to fight for that for a while, and trump. sounds like they're over that hurdle and this information is out and partst investigation. >> what will the possible criminality be in asking your attorney to give false information to a government agency? >> just that. asking your attorney to give false information. that's obstruction of justice. and that is perjury. that is false statements. it is a nasty crime. and one that the government is very actively pursuing. >> and the fact that "the washington post" reports that trump packed the box or boxes himself, how does that impact the case? does it give him knowledge

that lawyers name is alex cannon, refused, because he wasn't so sure that it was true. more to come on this, a little bit later on in the broadcast. plus, 39 days until the midterms, can you believe it? and the former guy who is not on the ballot anywhere is attacking, this is the story, what do you think about this one? attacking senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, claiming that he has a, quote, death wish slamming his wife in a racial slur, not even spelling his name correctly. you see that, xiao xiao. there you go, that is racism. the casual mark about a death wish, not even two years after a blood thirsty mob attacked the united states capitol, hunting for lawmakers in the halls. well, there is no other way to put it, all right? it's despicable. it's disgusting. every single republican ought to be able to say, loud and clear, or loudly and clearly, that violence is wrong. racism is wrong. >> it's never ever okay to be a racist. it's, you know, i think you always have to be careful, you know, you are in the public eye, and how you say things. you want to make sur

alex cannon, he's a former trump organization lawyer. he was a lawyer that was working with donald trump after the presidency, working with the archives, making sure that they were going to be getting everything. and this exchange after those 15 boxes were handed over with donald trump, it was donald trump telling him please, tell the archives everything has been turned over. and gaby orr was able to report that alex cannon said at that time he was not going to do that because he just didn't know if everything had been provided back to the hands of the federal government at that point in time, his relationship with donald trump really deteriorated but it was quite clear that the archives knew what they were missing and there were several things that they had been seeking, they really wanted back, they weren't getting them all, they said there were two dozen boxes that they knew trump had, they ended up getting 15 in january. they also knew that there was a correspondence between donald trump and kim jong un, the north korean leader, that

this lawyer, alex cannon, could end up being a he really important witness in a case. the it may than he was a witness for this affidavit, of course, parts of that were redacted and we don't know. but at any trial, having a witness like this could be critically important. for a couple things, one is it's tends to demonstrate donald trump's knowledge and intent. asking him to say that everything had been returned and also that donald trump himself packed the boxes demonstrates that he would know what was inside. it's going to be very difficult for donald trump to say i left this all to aides. i had no idea what was in there. maybe it's on them. but it's most certainly not on me. the other thing is significant about this is if donald trump was urging someone to make statements he knew was false, that could also be evidence to bolster that claim of obstruction of justice. so really important development. maybe this is not new to the justice department but it is new to the public. >> a good point there about how this could impact both the intent and the idea of obstruction

this week, the washington post reported that trump asked one of his lawyers, alex cannon, to tout thenal archives in early 2022, that he will return all the materials that the agency requested. they had a bit of a perry mason moment here -- perhaps, he knew that his client had a potential for phipps, because he refused to tell the national archives anything like that. from brand-new reporting from the new york times, in 2021, weeks before the alex cannon episodes, trump reportedly pushed his attorneys to make an offer to the national archives that he would trade the materials at mar-a-lago for documents that the national archive my app had on the national investigation into the 2016 campaign ties the russia. let that sink in because you honestly cannot make this stuff up, really. if this was on a tv legal drama, you would never believe it. mr. trump, i say you better call saul or mason or keating, but then again, knowing you would tv lawyers, rudy giuliani, may be, you better not. joining me now, ryan goodman, co-editor and chief of justice and security and law professor at nyu -- rac

. >> jackie, tell us a little bit more about alex cannon, we know the attorney who decided not to follow president's orders. has he been interviewed by the january 6th committee. per his reporting, if trump is telling him to lie, that indicates obstruction, no? >> those are all very good questions and points, john. we haven't figured out the answers to the first two things. we know the doj has really been engaged in exhaustive interviews in a lot of parties involved with the mar-a-lago boxes investigation, and actually that investigation, we have been told, is further ahead than the january 6th investigation. so i would presume that it would make sense that alex cannon would have been interviewed by these investigators as many of the staff who dealt with this already have been, but that is still unclear, and with regards to january 6th, it would also seem like cannon would be a good person for them to interview as well because cannon was the person who initially arranged for these boxes and these records to be located at mar-a-lago. although, he did tell staffers not to go through the bo

the washington post reports, alex cannon, a former trump organization lawyer who worked for the campaign and for trump after the presidency, told trump he could not tell the archives all the requested material had been returned. he told others he was not sure if other documents were still at the club and would be uncomfortable making such a claim, the people familiar with the matter said. other trump advisers also encouraged cannon not to make such a definitive statement, people familiar with the matter said. so, the new evidence we have tonight, in a possible criminal prosecution of donald trump, includes evidence that donald trump personally decided what documents to send to florida, and then he personally decided what documents to send back to the government, and what documents to than keep illegally in his possession. and a lawyer who facilitated that first transfer of documents from florida to the national archives refused donald trump's request to say that all the documents were returned. and that lawyer was not the only person involved who did not believe that all the documents we

. >> yeah this was a smart move by alex cannon.ll, there will perhaps be some testimony that the doj would perhaps like from him that might be privileged. but there will be plenty of what he knew, conversations he had with others and what he observed. they will not be privileged. that also might very well be subject to the crime fraud exception. therefore, we'll be you know testimony that he can give so you are right it stands and,,. ,, contrast to other lawyers who we have heard about who have, you, know signed at the stations that he was apparently willing to do. so the question is, what did alex cannon know? when did you know it? what conversations we have? those are all being trusted to department of justice. >> well, in a formal legal tip from me is to never sign a document that says that donald trump is telling the truth. not a good thing to do. >> good tip. >> danya perry, thank you so much for coming on. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> still to come, florida governor ron desantis loves a good publicity stunt as much as a

but the fact that the key piece that you didn't mention was that this alex cannon guy, told trump andks that he was uncomfortable telling the archives they had everything. >> exactly. that's why his testimony should be -- or be forced to cooperate with law enforcement, shows donald trump having an intent to hide. having an intent to deceive. and this report is precisely why we see trump lawyer after trump lawyer wound up in their own legal difficulties because donald trump pressures his attorneys to do unethical things. some of them acquiesce and face disciplinary proceedings, and others like this guy are kind of caught in the middle, but i think this is a gold mine for prosecutors right now, there will be no attorney client privilege, because it will be set subject to the crime fraud exception. >> dang. neil katyal, glenn kirschner, thank you both very much for coming back to the last word. coming up, vladimir putin is losing the war in ukraine. after russia's attempted annexation of four regions in ukraine, putin has suffered military setbacks in at least three of them. the latest s

but that lawyer, alex cannon, declined to do so because he was not sure if that claim was true. that's according to people familiar with the matter. >> they're telling this lawyer to say something to the federal government that's a lie. and of course i guess because he wants to keep practicing. >> maybe he wants to keep his license. >> i guess he decides to tell the truth. or at least refuse to repeat the die that donald trump and his people around him wanted him to tell the government. >> yeah. interesting, even alex cannon, who is a trump loyalist and has been an attorney there in the trump organization for a long time, let it be known, whether directly or through sources to "the washington post," that he tried to tell donald trump no, you cannot do this. people in that mode trying to save themselves from prosecution, perhaps. >>> opening statements began yesterday in the highest profile trial to date related to the january 6th attack on the capitol. oath keepers founders, stewart rhodes and four other members of that militia group are accused of plotting an armed rebellion to

but attorney alex cannon declined to sign on because he wasn't sure the statement was true. they say it was months before the fbi search of mara lago. meanwhile trump has filed a $475 million lawsuit a defamation lawsuit against cnn. he's accusing the news channel of running a smear campaign aimed at defeating him politically, the complaint says cnn uses defamatory labels to describe him such as racist and insurrectionist. trump is also threatening to sue other news outlets over their coverage of the 2020 election. supreme court has refused to hear an appeal from my pillow founder mike lindell. that means a one $0.3 billion lawsuit against the staunch trump ally can go forward. the suit was filed by dominion voting systems, accusing lindell of damaging the company with false claims that its voting machines rigged the 2020 election. time now for a look at your tuesday morning weather. a storm along the east coast is causing flooding on the jersey shore. it's also prompted flood alerts from north carolina's outer banks to long island. new york, rain is expected in that region

the initial 15 boxes of records to the national archives earlier this year he asked that lawyer, alex cannon tell the national archives that he had turned over all his presidential records. according to "the post" cannon refused to do so because the statement simply wasn't true. we now know that trump had many, many more presidential records with him at mar-a-lago. we know that because, of course, the fbi executed that search warrant and retrieved some two dozen boxes' worth of presidential records in august of this year, including many ocuments that were marked as classified. at the time that he had asked his lawyer to issue this statement trump did put out a public statement saying that he was cooperating fully, collaboratively, respectfully with the national archives. we now know, of course, george, that that wasn't true either. >> right. that statement did not say that everything had been turned over. jon karl, thanks very much. michael? >> all right, thank you, george. >>> now to the trial of five members of the oath keepers. the far right militia accused of plotting to attack the u.s.

i personally wouldn't believe anything that alex cannon pace.> if he was going to say anything he asked to say, if he felt he could get away with it, if donald trump asked him to say that was everything returned, would he say that? >> first of all, i this i the government has turned thes crews and i just don't this and i think it was a valid question, whoever said that. yeah, i would think there would be some significance. as it's playing out now, we have the rebation that's right that all on whether the documents were declassified, whether there was the authoritity. the investigation is interested in both statements. >> it does razz request. what did donald trump know and maybe he did know he was in possession of classified documents. >> the states as reported certainly raise that question. i think that's a fair thing for you to say certainly. the question is how that's going to play out. and again, if the answer turns on the document m in some sense. >> the supreme court. now the trump team has taken a very specific part of this case to the su

on that letter, charge this lawyer alex cannons evidence should be gangbusters. >> okay, so knowing all of this, terry, why and earth did do he not just say we screwed up, here the documents. back instead of lying about this and they raided, and they planted, evidence and they did all of. this because he just seems to be digging himself a deeper hole. especially when you think that his own attorneys, as utsa, will possibly have to testify against him. >> no kidding. and i think you are asking me to cycle analyze donald trump. as long as i have been doing this i have learned that, you know anybody that -- >> not just. that but the strategy from his legal. team wouldn't a good legal team say, come clean. that is the easiest way. that is the best way moving forward. >> they did you. that like herschmann said exactly that. two different lawyers dead. guess, what he is the most incorrigible in controllable klein's huge just isn't stacked is to lie and get past, it line get past. they've got the worst client in america. all right whitney, i want to talk about something. elsewhere getting this

on that latter charge, those, lawyer alex cannons evidence should be gangbusters. >> okay, so then knowing all of this, harry, why on earth didn't he just say, in the beginning, we screwed up, here are the documents back, instead of lying about this, and they planted evidence, and they did all this. because it just seems to be digging himself a deeper hole, especially when you think that his own attorneys, as you guys say, well possibly have to testify against him. >> no kidding, and i think you're out actually asking me to cycle analyze donald trump. as long as i've been doing this i've learned -- >> it's also the strategy from his legal team as well. wouldn't a good legal team say, look, come clean, that's the easiest way, that's the best way moving forward. >> the team did that. like harshman, they said exactly that to him, two different lawyers did. guess, what he's the most encouraging bullet kind of all-time. his instinct to supply and get past it, line get past it. they've got the worst kind in america. >> whitney, i want to talk about something else. given this dramatic first day i

what you are seeing with alex cannon who i referred to as the good cannon, not judge cannon, is that dawn again, saying that i will not go forward with this that honestly is a huge witness, we don't know the details of a, b can be sure the department does. >> in terms of that case, new word today, cnn reporting that kash patel who is sort of a right-wing functionary kind of guy, for devin nunes and was doing god knows what in the last days administration, that patel spent several hours throughout the morning of october 13th before a grand jury at the u.s. courthouse in washington, d. c.. it's not clear patel answer the grandeur's questions are declined respond citing his fifth amendment rights that is which is women's rights. that is the mar-a-lago grand jury. when you think it means that patel is being called forward? >> to me, there is no reason to be putting cash patel before a grand jury, whether he ends up testifying or as is his right knee takes the fifth but the fact that he's being put in to meet signals means that the prosecutors have donald trump is a target and that's wher

alex cannon, trump's attorney, says that all the material the national archives was returned but thend out there still thousands more documents at mar-a-lago. and trump do that, then what does that mean? >> yes, don, this is crucial evidence of donald trump's knowledge and intent. these are keeping the prosecutors look for. let's play this out. donald trump says, to his lawyer, i want you to tell the archives that we've now returned everything to them. this is after they returned that initial batch of 15 or so boxes. that is false we, know that is false. there are not just a few dock with schedule run mar-a-lago, but thousands of documents left. and then, trump's lawyer, responded that i can't or won't do that. the only reason a lawyer would do that it's cooler knows it is not true. lawyers cannot lie to investigators to court. so that point, donald trump certainly knows that his lawyer believes it is a false statement. it really is important prosecutors want take a close look at. >> we have a similar conversation, i believe it is last week, we are talking of the story will silent for

this is according to multiple sources >> they say that lawyer, alex cannon, refused to follow the orders now is senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elie hoe nig and olia troye. just tell them we gave what they asked for, knowing that was not true, is that alone evidence of a crime? . >> well, victor, it's crucial evidence of his knowledge and intent. that often is the most difficult thing for prosecutors to a approve. if he said, tell them we turned over everything, that is false. there was not a few but thousands of documents left at mar-a-lago. was that an honest mistake? the lawyer said, no, i can't go along with that. i can't sign onto that. lawyers are not allowed to lie. they are not allowed to sign on a statement they know is false. if i'm a prosecutor i'm looking at crucial evidence of donald trump's state of mind >> his attorney said he couldn't attest to it because he -- he didn't know it was a lie. he said i don't know whether you have turned it all over or not, so i'm not going to attest to that. >> i think the natural follow-up prosecutors will want to ask, w

among them was alex cannon, a trump lawyer who repeatedly argued that his client should hand the documentsp, according to people who heard his documents. they are my documents, trump said. this may be what land him in the deepest doo-doo of all. no, they are not. >> they are not his documents. the key line in this story is after receiving a subpoena. that is a guy who has a consciousness of his guilt. i'm not a lawyer, but i'm a reasonably educated guy. this is a consciousness of guilt flag on the play. he moved those documents because he knew he was in the wrong. did so after receiving a subpoena which i'm guessing is obstruction of justice no matter how you slice it. this guy is in deep trouble and as much as magas like to beat their chest, you can't catch him. he's catching himself and keeping digging the hole deeper and every single hole gets worse and worse for him. it never gets better. >> back to our conversation with michael cohen this, break-up in terms of strategy with alex cannon a trump lawyer precedes the recruiting info into the bad news bears legal time who spent friday talk

point, you anticipated my next question and that is this washington post report out tonight, that alex cannong the story, a former trump organization story who worked for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] for the [[80881588] ] ,. ,. . ,. . >>. ,,. ,. . . who what at we the we'll more all,. theor all, th our ancestors had power, our ancestors had hope and our ancestors had ambition. born in 1847, formally enslaved, started buying land, was in the house of representatives. we didn't know our family was part of black reconstruction. exactly. okay, seriously. finding out this family history, these things become anchors for your soul. new astepro allergy. now available withouty a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go. for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are positive for acetylcholine receptor antibodies, it may

the question is, what did alex cannon, when did he know it?s we have those will all be for the department of justice. >> informal legal tip for me is never sign a document that says donald trump is telling the truth. thank you so much, for coming on appreciate. still to come florida governor ron desantis loves a good publicity stunt as much as anyone, probably more. his latest footwear choice is drawing some attention from across the internet. the all in fashion review is next. before dexcom g6, my diabetes was out of control. i was tired. not having the energy to do the things that i wanted to do. before dexcom g6, i was frustrated. all of that finger-pricking and all of that pain, my a1c was still stuck. there is a better way to manage diabetes. the dexcom g6 continuous glucose monitoring system eliminates painful fingersticks, helps lower a1c, and it's covered by medicare. before dexcom g6, i couldn't enjoy a single meal. i was always trying to out-guess my glucose and it was awful. (female announcer) dexcom g6 is a small wearable that send

washington post" first and then the "times," that donald trump apparently asked a lawyer of his alex cannon to kel the archives, way back after the first batch of documents was turned over that, hey, we've given you everything. asked this lawyer to say, we've given you everything, the lawyer saying, i can't say that because i don't know it to be true. this is potentially important legally? >> it is potentially important. here's why. first of all, here's trump's only lawyer saying, i'm not lying to the federal government for you, because i can't, i don't have confidence that what you are asking me to say is true, and then trump goes off and says, well, he'll fire off a note to that effect. the fact trump's own lawyer, we've seen a pattern of this in different ways. is saying, i can't simply take my client's word for it when it comes to putting my reputation in front of the federal government. that's very significant. >> in all of this. >> especially when it comes down to the documents. >> and any chance justice too prove donald trump knew what he was asking wasn't true. >> i mean -- the lawy

that lawyer, alex cannon refused trump's request because he was not sure if other documents were at the, according to people familiar with the matter. that was a good call by cannon. "the new york times" adds that months earlier cannon had warned trump that if he didn't return all the materials, the matter could result in a criminal referral. cannon is two for two. it's the same warning another former white house lawyer eric hirschmann to trump at the same time. joining me is barbara mcquade and friend of the show, and barbara, i guess my basic question knowing that clarence thomas is the one who gets to make the initial decision because he oversees the circuit of whether or not they take the case. that makes me assume he's going to rule in trump's favor. is a supreme court affirmation of a former president stealing classified documents and stealing government documents, is that what we need to brace ourselves for? >> your thoughts are understandable joy, because the court has created a crisis of legitimacy, clarence thomas voted against the archives getting white house documents. he sa

but at the time, alex cannon refused, he was not onsite at mar-a-lago., poppy, is likely to become part of the ongoing criminal investigation. >> that's a very good point. caitlkatelyn polantz, thank you the reporting. let's turn to the u.s. had attorney for the southern district of new york elie honig. in your words, this is, quote, a waving red flag. why? >> yeah, poppy, we're seeing a pattern here which is donald trump repeatedly has made statements or claims publicly that his lawyers have been refused to repeat in court. or to investigators, and the reason for that, poppy, as you know, as a lawyer, you are not ethically permitted to knowingly make a false statement. yes, you have a duty to aggressively defend your client but know you cannot officially go to court, certainly, investigators, that would be a crime, and make a false statement. so we can piece together what happened here and it's important to go to donald trump's knowledge and intent. trump says to his lawyers, tell the archives this is everything. and the lawyers says, no, i can't do tha

and trump's then attorney, alex cannon, refused to relay that message. york and could not confirm trump's claims. the former federal prosecutor, defense attorney shan wu joins us now. the innocent explanation is mr. cannon's working in new york, can't personally do the inventory, says i can't sign that piece of paper until i with my own eyes can verify it. another interpretation is donald trump asks him to do something, he's in another city, he says i don't trust this, i'm not signing it this. >> i think it's a great example of how lawyers need to remember to distinguish between making a representation versus their advocacy. cannon's remembering that distinction. he can't vowed for what's in there so he's not going to make those representations to the government. i think something else we've seen in the reporting that's interesting is he didn't want to look in some of those boxes because he was worried there could be classified documents and told others to be wary of that as well. so that's very curious because why is he worried about there being classif

post stating multiple sources familiar with the matter, earlier this year, trump asked his lawyer, alex cannonof the documents that they national archives for seeking. canada refused to convey the message for trump, because he was not sure if it was true. spoiler alert. it was not true! trump still had thousands of documents, including some highly classified ones according to publicly released inventories, from the justice department. we should note nbc news has not independently verified the post verifying on that story, and all of has not responded 20 not from the post seeking comment or confirmation. a trump spokesperson refused to answer the post specific question, but they respond with a colorful screen about post owner jeff bezos. then, the plot thickens again, this time by the new york times, the later confirmed by nbc news. we learned the justice department suspects that donald trump still has documents that he should not have, according to sources familiar with the matter. and now, a bombshell last night from the new york times. quote, late last year as the national archives ramped up

going back to an early trump lawyer, alex cannon, who in january declined to make this kind of certification, and who cautioned other lawyers against searching out of concern that there might be classified material there. that none of them had the necessary clearance to view it and so he told everyone to stay away. at least that's what the reporting is telling us. so we fast forward to this new situation, where we have lawyers who say that they conduct a search, who then make certifications that don't comport with what we learned when doj goes in and searches. and there's very interesting tidbits and the reporting about christina bobb where she says, that she heard trump say to herself and corcoran, he wanted him to comply, give doj whatever they want. and so that puts three of them squarely in a room together discussing what they are going to do. that makes the two of them material witnesses. it's interesting because these are the sort of conversations that would normally be covered by attorney client privilege. but if she is testifying to them with doj or talking about them informally, wit

. >>> alex cannon refused trump's request to tell the national archives that all presidential documentsuse he wasn't sure that trump's statement was true, which it was not. >>> mr. brooks, we're having issues because of you. >> i'm not going to let you intimidate me into believing -- >> i'm not intimidating you. >> chaos in a wisconsin courtroom, darrell brooks kicked out twice on the first day of his trial for allegedly killing six people by driving an suv into a crowd at the christmas parade last year. >>> a new investigation revealing systemic abuse and misconduct by coaches in the top tier of women's professional soccer. the report also warns that girls face abuse in youth soccer as well. the president of u.s. soccer calling the findings heart breaking and deeply troubling. >>> did he tear his acl? >> he's still going. >> during a monday night game between the rams and 49ers, a fan started running across the field care requiring some kind of device that emitted pink smoke. rams linebacker bobby wagner delivered the man a pretty big hit helping security to catch him. >>> that is "5 t

but at least one lawyer for trump's political group alex cannon was so kerneled about what was in thees sent to mar-a-lago, that in late 2021, he told other trump aides not to handle the boxes or their contents, according to two people who spoke to cannon adding to the chaotic process which should have been months' worth of putting documents away after election day was compressed into two weeks because trump was still fighting election results. >>> meanwhile, let's change gears here, more than 100 people are now confirmed dead in florida as search and rescue efforts have turned into recovery ones this was authorities are stitt waiting on relief. nbc news correspondent kerry sanders has more. >> search and rescue! >> reporter: search and rescue moves door to door again. and again, the death toll climbed. more than 100 people killed by hurricane ian, half of them in lee county. the search and rescue now shifting mostly to recovery. >> more to the second and third phase. possible there's still people out there. possible but most likely we're on recovery now, and, you know, that's very di

to jail about how many times he talked about russia, christina bobb is heading down that path, alex cannonnd valet that may have committed perjury for trump. does the pattern of obstructing justice, it sounds like nothing weighs on merrick garland but something he's cognizant of? does he care about recidivism? >> i'm sure he cares about recidivism and i know that he, you know, he claimed publicly he would watch the january 6th hearings in congress and i know for a fact he did watch them all in a typically merrick garland meticulous sort of way. it's not like he's oblivious to all of this. i think when he was a judge, he had a very specific style of ruling on cases, which was very nonideological, he didn't try to apply any grand theory. he tried to look at the facts in the specific matter in front of him. again, my sense is that's the way that he thinks ability this. i'm sure, you know, the other interesting thing to say about merrick garland is that he's changed over time. when you read his speeches, since he's become attorney general, it's clear that he's much more clued in to the existen

. >> and alex cannon i think said trump told him to lie, specifically, and that's the thing. let me show you what cash patel's defense of the mishandling of national defense information is. at least as he shared it on tv. president trump as a sitting president has a unilateral authority of declassification, he can stand over a set of documents and say these are declassified, and that is done with defentive action immediately. >> these people would be funny if they weren't so dangerous. he's not a sitting president, cash. and trump doesn't even say that's what he did. trump told sean hannity, so i mean, like these two can't even keep their defense straight. >> no, and listen, this is the same problem they're having with the special master. you can say whatever you want on tv or the public domain, but when you have to go into a grand jury proceeding or into a court and swear under oath, the stakes kind of go up, and so i don't think that mr. patel probably answered a single question. i think he invoked his fifth amendment, that's my guess. if he did, he better watch himself, ju

. >> so when they say no to him, the story that came out this week is about alex cannon, a trump lawyernary. now he's another witness against him and seemingly proof that he knew it was illegal. >> but that shows what the -- we're talking about legal exposure. but the exposure that you have working for donald trump. because even if you are someone who said no, like don mcgahn famously said no, you're still going to end up with hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills even if you don't do what he wants. >> must be fun. thank you all so much for being here with us. up next here, why liz cheney traveled 1,000 miles to the state of arizona to make the case there to voters there that democracy is under threat. we'll explain after a quick break. don't go anywhere. u won't clock out. so u bring ubrelvy. it can quickly stop migraine in its tracks within 2 hours... ...without worrying if it's too late or where you are. unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks a protein believed to be a cause of migraine. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. most common side eff

>> one really good reason, nicolle, for that to be done is the reporting about the lawyer, alex cannonn a false certification supposedly that he was -- his arm was being twisted by people including donald trump, it's exactly analogous to what don mcgahn said happened to him as the white house counsel. so you have two really similar acts of obstruction f. you're the department, you kind of want those to work together so there is a reason to do both of those. there also is the issue that, if you don't charge that soon, something called the statute of limitations is going to run because you only have a certain amount of time to bring criminal charges after the criminal act has occurred. but having said that, i don't think that the department is going to do that. they did not look like they were terribly interested in following up on in the mueller report when they took office. and so it's a great question. it could come in as potential evidence at a trial related to mar-a-lago, but i wouldn't hold your breath, as i think you probably know, on whether the department's going to include thos

and this is even as some critic questioning musk's reliability, and some calling him a loose cannon. alexuardt has this report. >> reporter: as the united states carefully weighs how much to assume the protestors in iran, cnn has learned that the white house has turned to the world's richest man, elon musk, about his starlink stat light internet to help iranians communicate and get their story out. starlink has been critical for ukrainian forces and moscow says that it is active in iran, but it would be a major technological and security challenge to smuggle in thousands of internet terminals and use them in such an oppressive country. >> it is not just a matter of making it available, it is getting the terminals on the ground, into the country, educating people how to use them, making sure they are used in a way that is not keydetecta. >> reporter: and a senior administration official says we're interested in ensuring that iranian people can have access to the internet and starlink is one option but not the only option. >> access to the internet is very, very essential. >> reporter: and

a senior defense official calling musk a, quote, loose cannon. alexe report. >> reporter: as the united states carefully weighs how much to support the protesters in iran, cnn has learned that the white house has turned to the world's richest man, elon musk, about his starlink satellite internet to help iranian activists communicate and get their story out. >> liftoff. >> reporter: starlink has been critical for ukrainian forces in their fight against russia. and moscow said the starlink signal is active in iran. but it would be a major technological and security challenge to smuggle in thousands of internet terminals and use them in such an oppressive country. >> it's not just a matter of making it available. it's actually getting the terminals on the ground, into the country, educating people how to use them, making sure that they're being used in a way that is actually not detectible. >> reporter: a senior administration official told cnn, we are interested in finding ways to ensure that the iranian people can have access to the internet on their p

alex. r starts r>> corrupt judiciary f autocracies. not saying, just saying. >> the cannone these different levels at which oh, this decision we don't like, that's motivated by a decision you don't agree with. but then there is like the in the tank feeling, which is just on a different level. that's the worrying one. >> there is no reason you are doing this other than to curry favor at

alex. r starts r>> corrupt judiciary f autocracies. not saying, just saying. >> the cannon thing that we open the show with tonight, there are these different levels at which oh, this decision we don't like, that's motivated by a decision you don't agree with. but then there is like the in the tank feeling, which is just on a different level. that's the worrying one. >> there is no reason you are doing this other than to curry favor at this participants of a person whose name ends in romp. have a great weekend, my friend. and thank you for joining us at home. the department of justice says tonight, this evening, filed a brief arguing that it cannot wait until december to look at all 11,000 documents it seized from donald trump. the department is arguing the delay is impeding its central investigation, and we are gonna get to that story shortly. we begin tonight with the destructive fury of hurricane ian. the storm made its second landfall in the united states a little after 2:00 this afternoon, near georgetown, south carolina, arriving is a category one storm with maximum s

so if judge cannon or to rose that way, they will have a strong appeal. not to get in such a mess at all. alexather >> i'm sure that rather not have to get into such a mess. this is directed to clarence thomas who oversees the summits like it, and he's likely to review that the full supreme court. charlie savage, new york times national security and -- thanks for your wisdom. we needed that. >> thank you. >> i'm next, the story that is rocking republican politics. once would've been enough to do a republican candidates chances. but donald trump's -- herschel walker paid his girlfriend to have an abortion in 2009. well that information even effect his candidacy? the great steve kornacki joins us to understand what is happening in the great state of georgia coming up next. hi, i'm debra. i'm from colorado. i've been married to my high school sweetheart for 35 years. i'm a mother of four-- always busy. i was starting to feel a little foggy. just didn't feel like things were as sharp as i knew they once were. i heard about prevagen and then i started taking it about two years now. started noticing

so with judge cannon work to rule that way, they will have a strong appeal. not to get in such a mess at all. alexould rather not have to get into such a mess. this is directed to clarence thomas who oversees the summits the 11th circuit, and he is likely to review that to the full supreme court. charlie savage, new york times national security and legal reporter. thanks for your wisdom tonight, charlie, we needed it. >> thank you. >> i'm next, the story that is rocking republican politics. once would've been enough to do a republican candidates chances. by then donald trump's republican party, we are reporting that herschel walker paid his girlfriend to have an abortion in 2009. will that information even affect his candidacy? the great steve kornacki joins us to understand what is happening in the great state of georgia coming up next. up next ♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. showtime. whoo! i'm on fire tonight. (limu squawks) yes! limu, you're a natural. we're not countin

for judge cannon to rule that way they would is have a stronger appeal, of course they'd rather not have to get into a mess, alex i'm sure. this case, it's directed to clarence thomas who oversees the 11th circuit. he's likely to refer that to the premium court. charlie savage, thanks for your wisdom, charlie, we needed it. >> thank you. >>> up next, the story that is rocking republican politics. and once would have been enough to doom a republican ate's chances but in donald trump's republican party the reporting that herschel walker paid his girlfriend to have an abortion in 2009, will that information even affect his candidacy? the great steve kornacki joins us to figure out what is happening in the great state of georgia, coming up next. program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and tak

alex? >> very serious allegations. thank you for that report. >>> this morning, ukraine says russia is removing its occupation administration from kherson but suggests newly mobilized recruits are used as cannon fodder in that location as well. more than 27,000 civilians left their homes as fighting in the kherson region escalates. clarissa ward is live in zaporizhzhia with the latest. what can you tell us? >> reporter: brianna i think there had been high hopes towards the end of last week that with these evacuations, or as the ukrainians would call them, forced deportations, that potentially russia was preparing for a withdrawal from kherson city, but it's becoming clearly in the last days particularly, that actually the russians are determined to put up quite a fight. we have heard from ukraine's defense minister who said that ukrainian offensives or cou counteroffensives have been thwarted somewhat, it hasn't been as easy as the kharkiv region. he gave two reasons for that, partly because of the weather, it's damp and muddy, that makes it more difficult. and he pointed out the terrain, there are lots of water supply canals which the russians are able to use as trenches and use as their def