joining us now from new york is the director of "we steal secrets: the story of wikileaks," alex gibneynks for being here. >> good to be here, david. >> david: you set out to make a film about wikileaks and julian assange. why did it lead you to manning? >> at the end of the day it was about a relationship. the relationship between a leaker and a publisher. and it was -- for a long time we all thought of it as the wikileaks documents. but in fact they were really the manning documents. he was the leaker. so once we found a way to tell his story, which was actually as you showed on the clip, through his chats, which were chats -- you know, that he was sending to adrian while he was in iraq, then we were able to get at mannings part of the story and let him in effect tell his own story. >> you said wikileaks was the publisher. this has been a big part of the debate over bradley manning. but the key point here is the definition of wikileaks, and not just wikileaks but other non-establishment adversarial news organizations. the prosecutor tried to say if manning leaked to the "washington po