assuming he was with alex jones because he was sympathetic to alex jones and his cause -- i don't thinkt's a bold assumption -- it does start to tell us something about his view of all this. and, you know, one of the things we documented on the committee, in the final report, is that alex jones and his infowars played a very big role in the stop the steal movement. it's important to keep in mind what alex jones is about is anti-government extremism. this idea that the u.s. is illegitimate. and the inherent in that thought is the idea it should be overthrown. so the idea that alex jones would find himself there on january 6th and chess borrow would be by his side starts to speak to something of the mindset of chesebro, also this political -- at the heart of a political conspiracy and fake electors scheme to overturn the election. >> does it surprise you that neither -- well, certainly not jack smith. i think that's where it would end up being if there was evidence to support it. jack smith was not able to say, we're charging someone, anyone, with the violence on january 6th. does that su

>> i didn't know that kenneth chesebro was with alex jones. we certainly looked at thousands and thousands of hours of video of all of the footage, and certainly looked at a lot of video footage of alex jones, and it is quite possible that chesebro was in that footage and we just didn't recognize him. one of the things about him that we have been learning is more images have been coming out as of late that helped identify him here. >> yeah, i mean, does it tell you anything more though about this question of what is the line? is there a line between the people who were leading the political part of this, and the kind of election interference part? the fake electors? and the people who were breaking windows and breaking into the capitol? does it tell you anything more about that? >> well, you know, abby, one of the things we've seen in the press recently is how does somebody like kenneth chesebro, with his pedigree and education and up in the thick of this, sort of conspiracy to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and we are starting to ge

>> reporter: alex jones was helping pay for and plan the january 6th raleigh, urging his audience to er in washington, d.c. the night before trump's rally, jones warned of a coming battle. >> this will be their waterloo! this will be their destruction! >> we fight. we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> reporter: when the january 6th kmut asked if kenneth chesebro was in washington the first week of january, chesebro pleaded the fifth. but there is no question he was there. cnn analyzed publicly available photos and videos from that day which show his movements. in the hours before the insurrection, he was with alex jones and his entourage a short distance from the capitol. chesebro is here wearing a red trump 2020 hat. as lawmakers prepare to certify the election results, chesebro follows alex jones and a crowd of protesters as they walk towards the capitol. chesebro has his phone out, seemingly recording jones' every move. as jones was leading a crowd to the east side of the capitol, the west side was breached and rioters

there's no evidence that alex jones of violent or went into the capitol either. ting because people that jones led up the steps actually then did go into the capitol. we reached out personally, didn't hear anything back. his attorney gave us a statement, they declined to comment on this. but they said that they're going to -- mr. chesboro is going to allow the legal process to play out and declines public comment at this time. >> as i said, very interesting video to see. great work by you and your team. great to see you in person. kate? >>> and joining us now is cnn senior legal analyst, former federal and state prosecutor, elie honig, and political analyst for the associated. april, 2026. this is the request now, elie, from trump's attorneys to -- when they would like to see the trial on the federal -- the 2020 election, the federal trial begin. on its face, i wanted to get your take on what you think about the push to 2026. because quite frankly, the contrast is almost comical between the request from trump's attorneys and the requests from the special counsel a

he was with alex jones and his entourage, a short distance from the capitol.a red trump 2020 hat as lawmakers prepare to certify these results of the election inside the building, he follows alex jones and a crowd of protesters as they walked toward the capitol. he has his phone out seemingly. >> let's not fight the police and give them what they want. >> as jones was leading a crowd to the east side of the capitol, the west side was breached and he seems to show something on his phone to a member of his security team, and then jones and brynn gingras five climb the steps. there is no indication chesebro enter the capitol building or engaged in violence, but shortly after chesebro and jones left the east side, the capitol was breached again, the mob poured into the doors. in all, more than 2000 riders would enter the building attempting to prevent a joint session of congress from counting the electoral college votes. the house committee investigating january 6th would eventually call it the final step in donald trump's plan to try and overturn the election. a

at the same time, alex jones was helping pay for and plan the january 6th rally, urging his massive audiencebe the waterloo, this will be their destruction. >> we fight. we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> reporter: when the january 6th committee asked if chesbro was in washington the first week of january, chesbro pleaded the fifth. >> let's go take our country back. it's only minutes away. let's start marching to the capitol. >> reporter: but there was no question he was there. cnn has analyzed publicly available photos and videos from that day, which show his movements. in the hours before the insurrection, he was with alex jones and his entourage a short distance from the capitol. chesbro is here, wearing a red trump 2020 hat. as lawmakers prepare to certify the results of the election inside the building, chesbro follows alex jones and a crowd of protesters, as they walk toward the capitol. chesbro has his phone out, seemingly recording jones' every move. >> let's give the system what they want. we are peaceful. >> reporte

in november when alex jones was riling people up, long before january 6th.t line of questioning. now, there is a huge number of co-conspirators as we mentioned, 30 that are not charged, not named. why did the georgia da decide to put them in there but not name them and not charge them at this point? >> well, she had put them in there then you would have had something like 50 or 55 defendants which would be even more unwielding. it's reasonably common in these sprawling criminal indictments to include unnamed, unindicted co-conspirators. there's been interesting guessing trying to figure out who is unindicted co-conspirator number 1, number 2 and so on. i think you can get a pretty good sense of who the people are based on the factual allegation that is surround them. these people will play a key role at trial. they at least according to the indictment were part of the conspiracy, even if they are not formally charged. they would presumably have a lot to say about the events and a lot to say about the evidence that led to these underlying charges. >> so they

he followed right wing conspiracy theorist alex jones for about an hour. chesebro is the alleged architect of a plot to use fake electors to stop the certification of joe biden's win. this week he was indicted along with trump and 17 others in georgia. he's also been identified as an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal case against the former president. >> cnn projects joseph r. biden jr. as elected the 46th president of the united states. >> reporter: in the days after the november 2020 election, chesebro wrote a memo to a lawyer for donald trump. it's among the earliest known documents outlining the legal strategy trump would allegedly try to use. his memo focuses on january 6 as the hard deadline with ultimate significance to determine the validity of electoral votes. emails obtained by the january 6 committee show chesebro later suggesting to the trump campaign the ferp of, quote, wild chaos on that day could provoke the supreme court to take action. >> go to the white house. >> reporter: at the same time alex jones was helping to pay for and plan

>> reporter: at the same time alex jones was helping pay for and plan the january 6th rally, urging his massive audience to gather in washington, d.c. the night before trump's rally, jones would warn of a coming battle. >> this will be their waterloo! this will be their destruction! >> we fight. we fight like hell. if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> reporter: when the january 6th committee asked if cheeseboro was in washington the first week of january which he is bro pleaded the fifth. >> let's start marching to the capitol! >> reporter: but there is no question he was there. cnn has analyzed publicly available photos and videos from that day which show his movements. in the hours before the insurrection, he was with alex jones and his entourage a short distance from the capitol. chess bro is here wearing a trump 2020 hat. which he is bro follows alex jones and a crowd of protesters as they walk through the capital. he has his phone out, seemingly recording jones's every move. >> let's go around to the other side. let's not fight the police and

he's captured in several clips along with infowars host and fake tan enthusiast alex jones. some of the photos and videos, quote, stop the steal organizer allie alexander. we have not seen any evidence to suggest he went inside the capitol building or that he committed any violent acts. you're looking at a freeze frame of one of the clips. chesebro in a grassy area in the red maga hat at the center of the frame. he's holding a phone up and appears to be filming. here he is again in a different area looking around, a thick crowd around him. the video briefly becomes grainy. he puts his hand up and wipes his mouth. no comment yet from chesebro's lawyer on the revelations. now, when chesebro was asked by the january 6th committee whether he had any direct communications with donald trump about the election or the january 6th joint session of congress, he asserted his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. chesebro also pleaded the fifth when asked whether he was in washington, d.c. during the first week of january leading up to the joint session. quote, i think just

and now cnn has identified chesebro on video following conspiracy theorist alex jones around the grounds on january 6. with us now, senior crime and justice correspondent. so symone, tell us what you've learned about his actions and movements that day. >> reporter: right, video from that day really captures his movement around the grounds outside the capitol. and walking on the grounds with that trump red hat on, and at some point, he starts to follow alex jones. of course, he's one of the loudest voices there, one of the leaders of the stop to steal leaders. then you see chesebro there on the steps there on the grounds, wearing that hat. all raising all sorts of questions. what exactly was he doing there on the grounds that day? this is a man an attorney for the trump campaign. he talked about in a memo and in his interview with the committee, with the january 6 committee when they questioned him about his activities that had week. he denied ever wanting to answer any of their questions. he took the fifth. he also claimed that he couldn't speak about some of this because of attorney-cli

but, you know, even extreme person like alex jones for donald trump, let them have their say. i really would like to know what they're thinking and the case of trump. i mean, he has no filters would just say whatever's on his mind. three in the morning here he is on twitter. you know, that's good to know what the leader, the free world is thinking at three in the morning. right. so now he's gone. so i don't know what he's thinking. and so to me, i'm pretty much a fundamentalist. i just let people have their say. and if you disagree, then explain why. and one of the examples you used though is holocaust denial that david irving should have his say. yes, that's right. yeah, right. so i defended irving he was arrested in, um, flying into austria tagged on his passport when he through customs that he's a threat because holocaust is illegal in many european countries like especially germany but france and austria. canada too amazingly where even thinking thoughts was illegal apparently because he hadn't given a speech, he hadn't spoken at all. he was just going intending to speak.

what's not clear is why he was following and seemingly recording alex jones.he entered the capitol building or engaged in violence that day. still, why this is remarkable is because kenneth chesbro is the only member of trump's efforts who is now known to have been on the capitol grounds that day. i'm joined by -- senior investigative counsel for the january 6th house select committee. did the committee know about this? >> the committee did not know about this, that he was on the capitol on that day. so, i think that is, you know, we do commend the extensive work the journalists have done. frankly when i joined the committee, part of the work that we did was follow up the work journalists started from months before. it's a great find, very important. >> he he seessentially pleaded fifth. did they have suspicions he was there? what was the sense on that? >> what the committee was focused on was how the political coup led to the violence that day and how that through line was connected. so, it's important to always know people were at the forefront of donald tru

agree with him in the sense that, that well i, you know, tucker i, you know, in the same thing with alex jones, frankly, does. everybody had to always give these sort of preliminaries if they were not, you know, have it supporters that, oh well, you know, alex jones may be crazy but, and they, they started doing that so much that i noticed the jimmy no longer says well, tucker carlson as well, you know, off the ranch or whatever are you doing? i've noticed the transition i noticed was right, is it exactly the way you did? i remember, yeah. it's finally finally coming to reconciling with a fact that these, these labels and these, uh, these i audiological or political sort of compartmentalization of people were for false. i mean, we agree on more than we disagree about. and then we'd certainly agree on the fundamentals of what this country should be, and this absolutely frightening the hell out of the establishment that is, as a totally ruled on the basis of these artificial, this artificial divide, i mean, in any sort of rebels or, or people who would challenge that to me? i worked for newt gin

capitol on january 6th, following around alex jones, while appears to record alex jones, using his cellhone. cnn identified chesebro through video, and acquaintances. nbc news has not independently verified this video. we reached out to attorneys for march chesebro, who had no comment. while there's no evidence he entered the capitol building or took part in the violence, there's a startling new connection with the ex-president's legal team and what was happening on the ground with the insurrectionists charlie sykes joins us. this part where it involved these lawyers, sort of the while-collar mob, right? geoffrey clark, john eastman, was particularly heartos, because they were the closest to use these levers of government. i think one of the allegations about this gentleman, is he was to be dropped into doj after trump's defeat. i don't think that ever happened, but he was viewed as we have geoffrey clark's -- >> what it reminds us is that the fake elector scheme was not a one-off. it was part of an ongoing plan to overturn the election. so you connect the dots between what roger stone

we all know who alex jones is, at this point.heeseborough, himself now, is a co defendant in the indictment coming out of georgia. he's considered as well an unindicted coconspirator in special counsel jack smith's indictment as well out of washington, d.c.. how significant is this video, in terms of providing a link between him, the former president, and the allegations made against him, both in georgia and in washington? >> so, i find this video rather interesting in terms of who cheeseborough trust to hang out with that day and who he was with on january six. but it's not necessarily an act of criminal in and of itself because the way that the capitol -- violence as far as we can tell. but it speaks to, and you saw that in the georgia indictment with those -- the criminal conspiracy, you saw some of it in jack smith's indictment of donald trump. it speaks to that larger issue of the various fringe players, including the lawyers, who are conspiring these various different ways with their -- client, donald trump, to try to preve

today was -- it was a rough day for the despicable and ridiculous alex jones today.lex jones was ordered today, by a jury in connecticut, to pay $965 million in damages to the families of eight victims of the sandy hook massacre, which he repeatedly called a hoax. he tormented these families. accused them of faking their children's deaths. in august, a jury in texas ordered him to pay about $50 million to the parents of another victim of sandy hook. which means between the two cases, he now owes these parents over a billion dollars in damages. i guess the good guys just won the infowars is what happened there. [ laughter ] alex, of course, says he won't pay a cent. he declared bankruptcy to try to protect himself. and had a full-on hissy fit as the verdict was read. >> so proud of our work. this is the devil coming after us. i feel good about the work i've done and the listener support. this corrupt dying political system wants to try to make you the devil, i'm not the devil. god as my judge, not you globalist scumbags. i personally don't have $2 million. the company

following around big lie front man alex jones. at no point does it appear he attempted to enter the capitol. election worker intimidation is a key element of the conspiracy alleged in the georgia case. which is where part two of the scheme comes in. following the november 2020 vote, ruby freeman and her daughter shaye moss were falsely accused of rigging georgia's election in favor of joe biden. the mother and daughter duo both fulton county election workers, were targeted because trump's fraudsters needed a patsy for their fake elector plot. now, just remember, these were not victimless crimes. freeman and moss were viciously harassed. their lives upended as trump's cronies tried to uh-huh has them into admitting something that wasn't true. which brings us back to trump's ensemble character. harrison floyd, the maryland based executive director of a group called black voices for trump, trev yawn cutty, a former publicist for now scandalized music stars r. kelly and kanye west, as if this case wasn't weird enough, and we have stev

alex jones is in many ways a -- like the proud boys and oath keepers. the most violent elements on january 6th. so now that you've got him here you've got to ask those questions. why is he there. is there any sort of linkage between the lawyers that he is working with and the more violent elements. that is all on the table once you see this video. and then there is a final thing that i am curious about here, that donald trump tweet where he says be there, we will be wild in reference to january 6th. that repetition of the word wild that chose pro also uses. it makes you wonder what is going on here. >> i want to ask you about this whole business of cheeseborough and eastman talking about the supreme court and causing the court to act out of fear that there may be violence. that is outside the realm of the sort of thing that lawyers should be doing. later in the show we will talk about all the lawyers who now need lawyers because they are indicted or unindicted conspiracy -- conspirators and these various charges. but that seems, i just hadn't thought ab

identified as the man in the red trump maga hat right there marching along conspiracy theorists alex jonesro was one of the 18 co-defendants in the case down in georgia. chesebro appears to be coconspirator number five, in special se smith election interference case. chesebro is everywhere, legally speaking. while there is no indication that mr. chesebro enter the capitol or acted violently on jenner six this could greatly complicate his legal defense. as nyu law professor ryan goodman notes this evidence could be cited by prosecutors as further proof that cheeseborough was not working as a bona fide legal advisor but rather as an activist. -- she served as the deputy chief of the criminal division. kristie, thanks for being with me on this friday night. i wonder if you agree with ryan goodman's assessment that the presence of chesebro in the january 6th insurrection though not acting violently could be a real problem for the defense he is trying to mount in the federal entitlement? >> absolutely it could, the lawyers will want to portray him as a lawyer sitting in the office, sending out

and alex jones out of the coupe la at the top like the dime store mussolini extorting people, don't letance. >> george cehdy is a democrat who reports in his blowing the atlanta objective. he covered the far right groups that descended on the georgia capital for the stop the steal rallies after the 2020 election. >> like they filled the stairs and they're talking about taking over the capital, then i started to think all right, what exactly are you going to do? there was a conversation that was happening in right wing spaces about disrupting the electoral count. so i went to the capital on december 14th. >> if you would please complete your ballots. >> december 14th was the date that the state's electors all across the country would meet to certify their vote. that day trump narrowed in on georgia. could have been easy. he tweeted to the state governor. now, we have to do it the hard way. prosecutors say this trump tweet and 11 others contributed to the conspiracy to overturn georgia's election results. >> while the tweets themselves standing alone in isolation are not necessarily crimi

on the same day he was kicked off twitter a second time, kanye went on the alex jones hatefest, wearing mask, and he had a strange disagreement with alex. >> i'm just saying i don't like nazis and i don't like what some of the mafias are doing either. >> i like hitler. >> stephen: wow! that is upsetting and it's got to the worst career-ending segue into a commercial break ever. it reminds me of cronkite's famous signoff... >> and that's the way it is. i kill drifters for fun. and now a word from smucker's jelly! >> stephen: we got a great show for you tonight. my guests are john david washington and tennis champion naomi osaka. but when we come back, "meanwhile"! join us. ♪ ♪ >> announcer: "the late show with stephen colbert" sponsored by allstate. you're in good hands. check. psych! anand i'm abouout to ststeal this g game from y u just like e i stole kekelly cr in higigh school.. you gogot no game e dude, that's's a foul! and now yoyou're readydy toto settle ththe score. gameme over. and d if you donon't have the right homeme insurancece cove, well, , you could d end up payingng for a

their advertisements and that turned out to be a lot of right wing media channels know you think of alex jones with his supplements or pat robertson selling his is big buckets of apocalypse do and republican candidates were using email lists their campaign email they were monetizing them by selling to millions and millions of their followers and so profit motive i think kind of overrode both the the roots of the alternative medicine movement before that and created a real distinction belief became less of a prerequisite and said what you needed what was a business and i think a lot of folks took advantage of that. um, so i grew up in rural lancaster county and there's a lot of amish and older mennonites in that region. and my friend lived surrounded by amish old order mennonites. and during the there was a rally in this huge field and robert f kennedy jr was doing a rally for some anti-vaccine thing. and anyway, it was just a field full of amish and old order mennonites and i actually i grew up mennonite and a lot of my aunts and uncles and cousins of, you know, i think they believe in zombies

as i turn the corner, i see this big, black -- it was an armored personnel carrier and alex jones outp, like the dimestore mussolini, just saying, don't let them take this away from you. off in the distance. >> reporter: george is a democrat and a local georgia journalist who reports on politics and crime in his blog, the atlanta objective. he covered the far-right groups that descended on the georgia capitol for stop the steal rallies after the 2020 election. >> and they filled the stairs and they're talking about taking over the capitol. then i started to think, all right, what exactly are you going to do? there was a conversation that was happening in right-wing spaces about disrupting the electoral count. i went to the capitol on december 14th -- >> reporter: december 14th was the date that the state's electors all across the country would meet to certify their vote. that day, trump narrowed in on georgia. could have been easy, he tweeted to the state governor. now we have to do it the hard way. prosecutors say this trump team and 11 others contributed to the conspiracy to overtur

-- you can see him brief willy there -- at the capital on january 6th with trump and stone ally alex jones, which raises the question of how many people viewed the coup plotters to move beyond lawyering and speech and into crime. so roger stone's reemergence is more more than a footnote in the history, let alone his biography with trump. his penchant for promotion and cameras added to the public evidence. that's how we know that when january 6th turned violent, mr. stone, who had taken a call the day before from the white house with those plans, according to meadows' aid testifying under oath, how he's viewed the crime spree as a reason to change his plans. the video showing hem abruptly fleeing d.c. and saying, quote, i'm getting out of town. this is all newly relevant, not only as we head into another election where donald trump could be the nominee and roger stone could be roaming free and they could all be improving on what they view as their tested plans to not only test the system, to not only hack it, but to cheat it and end democracy. not all of the steps in that are necessarily il

alex jones out of the kubla at the top, like dimestore mussolini just extorting people .from you, often the distance. >> reporter: george judy is a democrat and a local journal to report on politics and mine -- he called the groups that dissented on the capital after the 2020 election. >> faith of the stairs and they are talking about taking over the capital and i to think what exactly are they trying to do there was a conversation that was happening in white ring spaces about disrupting the electoral count. i went to the capital on december 14th. >> reporter: december 14th was the date that the state electors all across the country would need to certify their vote . >> i thought maybe the 3% militia or some other group are going to show up and do something stupid and i wanted to bear witness. >> reporter: did you see those types when you got to the capital? >> i did not. >> reporter: wet chidi ditzy was an activist to he recognized from his reporting. >> hey, why are you here? he did not make eye contact with me and he went into a room in the capital. i'm looking around

this just in, new and exclusive cnn reporting that reveals trump ally kenneth chesbro followed alex jones of the largest public safety outdoor warning systems in the world. so why were they silent during the deadly wildfires? maui's emergency management administrator steps down. >>> and hurricane hilary a major category 4 storm. the southwest bracing for flooding and mud slides. >>> health officials bracing for three virus this is fall warning covid, the flu and rsv could all hit at the same time. >>> and start spreading the news, or don't if you're a yankees fan like me, the yankees are the worst they've been in decades. it's unfortunate, but cnn "this morning" starts right now. >>> and we're going to start this morning with that major storm we're tracking posing a threat to the west coast. hurricane hilary intensified overnight into a powerful category 4 storm as it nears cabo san lucas, mexico. >> it could bring heavy flooding to baja, california, that peninsula in the southwest of the country, by the weekend. hurricane hilary expected to weaken as it hits north. if it hits as a tropic

we saw alex jones try to do this with the sandy hook families. we would expect that mr. giuliani will probably attempt to do the same thing. but we have tools of the legal system available to us to make sure we pursue whatever assets he may have to recover for our clients for whatever award we're able to obtain. >> so the judge noted regarding the damages trial that the election workers, your clients, could try to show that rudy's false claims were intended to make money for himself. is that part of the strategy? >> definitely we can demonstrate and intend to demonstrate that much of the time when he was defaming our clients he was doing so on his podcast, on his radio show, those types of media obviously bring with them advertising revenue and the sort of recognition and notoriety that comes along with being constantly in the news brings additional opportunities, whether it's a personal brand or whether it's the revenue streams associated with a podcast or a radio show. so yes, that's part of the strategy, is to demonstrate -- part of the strategy will be to demonstrate

there's something else we want to talk about and that is rudy giuliani is now join ing te likes of alex jones. in the eyes of the law, they are liars who defamed innocent people. the judge said that the former new york city mayor should have known better when he tried to take a shortcut around his legal obligations and around the truth. it may cost him millions. >> our expectation is we'll be able to prove tens of millions of dollars in compensatory damages. >> tens of millions? >> you heard me correctly. >> giuliani made the choice to not comeply, and the lawsuit filed by two georgia election workers. and now he finds himself sanctioned, liable for those lies. how will the judge wrote off the legal excuses of having more holes than swiss cheese. that's 50 years in litigation should have taught him that lip service will never satisfy a court of law. former federal prosecutor shan wu joins the table as well. shan, what do you make of this decision by the judge when it comes to a civil case going on in georgia for these two women who were very much defamed and theirs were turned upside down. th

and alex jones out of the cupola at the top like a dime store mussolini exhorting people like, "don't aah!” off in the distance. >> george chidi is a democrat and a local georgia journalist who reports on politics and crime in his blog, "the atlanta objective." he covered the far-right groups that descended on the georgia capitol for stop the steal rallies after the 2020 election. >> and this -- like they'd filled the stairs, and they're talking about taking over the capitol. then i started to think, all right, what exactly are you going to do? there was a conversation that was happening in right-wing spaces about disrupting the electoral count. so i went to the capitol on december 14th. >> if you would please complete your ballots. >> reporter: december 14th was the date that the state's electors all across the country would meet to certify their vote. >> i thought maybe the 3% militia or some other group were going to show up to do something stupid, and i wanted to bear witness. >> so did you see any of those types when you got to the georgia state capitol? >> i didn't. >> reporter:

he is in the presence of a known conspiracy theorist, alex jones, and he actually went into a restricted the capitol, as well. so, you know, this shows somebody who is really personally invested in this corrupt plan to overturn the election. there is a reason why, when investigators asked him if he was in d. c. in december of 2020, and into january of 2021, he pled the fifth. he knows that it is damaging that his presence at the capitol that day is certainly damaging to any defense that he's trying to mount to the charges. >> he's all over this video. he's not exactly a secret presence here. he's very much in and around some of the big faces of the day, the boldface names, the allegations of january 6th. i've got to ask you, the notion that this defense, effectively lawyers be lawyering, they are just being creative, if you are john eastman. or you know, mr. chesebro was just, you know, putting forth some legal theories as lawyers do. it is that, in and of itself, it's all that explanation in the court of law as to how the fake electors plot, for example, came to be? does not hold as muc

capitol on january 6th following around conspiracy theorist alex jones just as congress was inside trying certify the election. what do you make of this connection here? >> so one of the major defenses for donald trump in these cases is i was relying on my attorney, right? and that's going to be one of his defenses. it's called advice of kuns counsel, and that requires you in good faith rely on your lawyer's advice. and if your lawyer made a mistake and gave you bad advice by accident, then you might not be responsible if you accident lecommitted a crime. what this shows, i think, is this was not a good faith legal advice given to trump. this was an activist lawyer who part of his strategy and there are e-mails that the january 6th select committee also had showing, an e-mail between mr. chesebro and mr. eastman, the two architects of the january 6th strategy. and part of that was to create havoc and destruction and chaos hoping that that would put pressure on the supreme court later on when this matter ultimately if they could get away with their fake elector scheme, getting that in fron