is that we do have these emergent behaviors and we have to model complex systems and my friend, alex lamknows this better than i do and he built simulation models that help us understand how we get that emergent behavior. hopefully you can help. >> a book i've been starting to read this certain sense i hear you articulating much more clearly something that i have been studying most of my life. as very familiar. i guess i am curious, what have you found effective in terms of when you go into an organization, and you provide consulting maybe teaching a craft, how do you get these ideas across more effectively? and also, as of particular tools you find useful. >> guest: i go in i would say naked, but that's not it, i go with a not a lot of studying because i don't want to bring my biases into the picture. i go with the methodology i think it's chapter six thrill simply brainstorm the outcomes you brainstorm the actions in the illicit peoples and 8 cents of the change to get it from one to the other. then, only after we do that i usually will go back and be this really ugly whiteboard pictur