we see what's going on with alex rodrigez, with baseball.w, nor should they be. >> betsy, you and i watched this -- the interview he did with oprah, you were on our program back then. i get tweets from people who say, lance armstrong's already come clean. your point is, and the point of a lot of people who know him and have been following him closely, he didn't fully come clean. there's a lot of details hen did the get into. and a lot of things you say, and others say he wasn't telling the truth about. >> that's true. usada did its job, travis tiger, bill bach did their job to bring this -- to hold lance accountable. now, it's the job of the united states government on the civil side and the criminal side to go forward. because as i said before. there's no way that lance got away with this. there's no way that he did it on his own. he was aided and abetted. and so lance is going to have to come clean. oprah wasn't the forum to -- where he should have come clean with every single detail, with everything. but if he's going to take that step. h