alfred edmund is the senior vice president and multimedia editor at "large" at black enterprise and sin barnes is a partner at first capital and blogs at sneakerheadpc.com. great to see both of you guys. i found out about this company actually from a colleague of yours. and i thought it was such a good story. this idea of the mvp, minimum viable product turns on its head the way people used to do business before. >> that's right, that's right. >> we met these guys and many of the entrepreneurs we meet, one thing we love is this idea of build, break, learn and do that as many times as you can, as fast as you can. turn those feedback loops into shorter and shorter loops. and really be able to grow your business with as few dollars as possible. and ultimately that will lead to a strong foundation and to the biggest business that you're capable of building. >> we do this in my company, as i just said, but alfred, it pains me to put stuff out there that's not perfect. we do it because we build, break, learn, get it out there, get feedback. when i get it sometimes i think i want to tweak that