alice _ and alice perkins? don't recall she had been critical. alice was - and alice perkins? een critical. alice was a very straightforward chair. and i generally took feedback pretty well. forgive me for repeating the phrase but there is documentation on that as well. i am sure she gave me straightforward feedback about why this had taken so long, white was over budget, why the report contain things the post office felt were inaccurate. it things the post office felt were inaccurate-— things the post office felt were inaccurate. it continues, simon richardson. — inaccurate. it continues, simon richardson, i— inaccurate. it continues, simon richardson, i thought - inaccurate. it continues, simon richardson, i thought the - inaccurate. it continues, simon i richardson, i thought the minister had dealt — richardson, i thought the minister had dealt with the question is extremely well and looked in control of the _ extremely well and looked in control of the brief. evidently she had the post office in to tear them off a strip— post office in to tear them off a strip for— post off

alice perkins...to this particularly but i can remember alice perkins saying to me at— can remember alice perkins saying to me at some _ can remember alice perkins saying to me at some stage, "paul, if you want to get— me at some stage, "paul, if you want to get the _ me at some stage, "paul, if you want to get the truth and a really clear answer— to get the truth and a really clear answer from somebody, you should tell them _ answer from somebody, you should tell them what it is you want to say very clearly — tell them what it is you want to say very clearly and then ask for the information that backs that up." that— information that backs that up." that was— information that backs that up." that was why i phrased this that way _ that was why i phrased this that wa . . . that was why i phrased this that wa , .. . .. ., that was why i phrased this that wa. . ., ., way. that is an odd way of going about things. — way. that is an odd way of going about things, isn't _ way. that is an odd way of going ab

in a note that alice perkins wrote before the i alice perkins wrote before the departure of susan crichtonuch is beyond her control— she, susan, she is so much is beyond her control that is a problem. it is her control that is a problem. it is her aiibi — her control that is a problem. it is heraiibi do— her control that is a problem. it is her alibi. do you think the same could _ her alibi. do you think the same could be — her alibi. do you think the same could be said for you? no, definitely _ could be said for you? no, definitely not. _ could be said for you? no, definitely not. i— could be said for you? no, definitely not. i asked - could be said for you? iirr, definitely not. i asked questions, i oversaw the strategy which would have introduced changes where we felt it was appropriate to the organisation, i probed, iworked in a structured way and an informal way. i would walk around the desks and talk to people to find out what was going on. i was sometimes criticised in team development events for being too curious and stepping too much into people's territory. i don't think that's a

it was her and alice perkins as chair who insisted on the business investigating in detail. 1a7, abouteemed to me wished only to find a way to resolve these issues appropriately and sought to do so tenaciously and with great care and an eye for detail. paragraph 1a8, please. you say, i would also like to mention angela van den bogerd. ifound her to be incredibly committed to public service and to the post office. she was detailed, thorough and empathetic. she was also, it seems to me, committed to getting to the truth, hampered by lack of information we now have to hand. is it fair to summarise your evidence in those paragraphs that i have read out as painting a picture of a communications team and the senior leadership team that was committed to opening up to challenge? yes. to opening up to challenge? yes, that is fair- _ to opening up to challenge? yes, that is fair. can _ to opening up to challenge? yes, that is fair. can we _ to opening up to challenge? yes, that is fair. can we please - to opening up to challenge? yes, that is fair. can we please turn, l that is fair. can we plea

then if we go over the page to page three we can see what alice perkins was going to deliver as key—ages, and over the page to page _ as key messages, and over the page to page four we can see your section — to page four we can see your section. , to page four we can see your section.- topic - to page four we can see your section. yes. topic three, background, _ section. yes. topic three, background, and - section. yes. topic three, background, and we - section. yes. topic three, background, and we can l section. yes topic three, background, and we can see all section. 19:3 topic three, background, and we can see all of the bullet— background, and we can see all of the bullet points in detail on that page. _ the bullet points in detail on that page, yes? the bullet points in detail on that page. yes?— the bullet points in detail on that page, yes? yes. where does it say there that every _ page, yes? 193 where does it say there that every case taken to prosecution that involves the horizon — prosecution that involves the horizon system has been found in favour— horizon system has been

alice perkins commented i thought— business.ur. she seemed very confident in them and given his strongly— confident in them and given his strongly stated opinion to having an inquiry— strongly stated opinion to having an inquiry in _ strongly stated opinion to having an inquiry in the first place i had wanted — inquiry in the first place i had wanted her to feel some ownership of the process— wanted her to feel some ownership of the process once we decided to go down _ the process once we decided to go down that— the process once we decided to go down that route we had lost control of the _ down that route we had lost control of the process and i had lost confidence in simon baker early on but had _ confidence in simon baker early on but had been told repeatedly he was a good _ but had been told repeatedly he was a good and capable of handling the role. a good and capable of handling the role we _ a good and capable of handling the role. we should never have got into a position— role. we should never have got into a position whe

and you sent an e-mail to alice perkins, 001, 46462, which | alice perkins, 001, 46462, which statedry short period of time to remove that statement about post office it from the royal mail prospectus because i didn't believe that it was helpful in any way to the post office because the two businesses were separate, the prospectus was about the flotation of the royal mail and as i said a couple of times over the last two days, there was always with the post office, and it was the same for the royal mail, the challenge of managing potential misinterpretation in the media of facts that were not necessarily always understood. as chief executive, part of your role is to protect the reputation of the post office. is to protect the reputation of the post office-— is to protect the reputation of the post office. , ., ., , ., post office. they would have been no misinterpretation _ post office. they would have been no misinterpretation of _ post office. they would have been no misinterpretation of the _ post office. they would have been no misinterpretation of the media - misinterpretation o

. >> in a note that alice perkins wrote before the departure of susan crichton to you, she said, quote that she quote, it's the fact that she that susan sees so much as beyond her control that's the problem. it's her alibi . do you problem. it's her alibi. do you think the same could be said as you of you know, definitely not. >> i, i asked questions, i oversaw the strategy, which would have introduced changes where we felt it was appropriate to the organisation . i probed, i to the organisation. i probed, i worked in a structured way and an informal way. i would walk around the desks in the organisation and talk to people just to find out what was going on. i was sometimes criticised in team development events for being too curious and stepping too much into people's territory . i don't think that's a criticism that could have been levelled at me . levelled at me. >> you tell us that you always enjoyed a good relationship with moya greene, the chief executive of royal mail group, in your witness statement. >> yeah, we had a good working relationship , skip, you say no relationship, sk