so yes, obama and hillary, you may say out-alinksky alinksky. they used state power in a way alinksky never dreamed was possible. that is the first point. now, with regard to whether or not alinksky was a leftist or a rightist, let's just put it this way. once you start talking about the haves and the have nots and you create their health is accidental. something that rained like manna on their heads and they are trying to protect it. and the have nots are the victims of social misfortune who must organize and struggle to take from the haves we are now in a straight out marxist class division of society between the haves and have nots. let's remember the whole of the united states was invented as an alternative to this framework. the united states is based on the idea if you limit the size of the government you avoid the kind of oppression that was common and systematic in futile europe and you allow something kind of new in the world which is wealth creation. people work hard, people come up with new ideas and patents and copyrights. people inv

. >> you mentioned assault kolinsky -- saul alinksky. >> of which is on the panel with his son and he appeals to people's self-interest antagonistic. he denied hill's of the christian ethic but self-interest and how will we give power to these people? and give them to the have-nots that is very similar in so far the mainstream media does not give you information. that voter fraud does not exist if it isn't even possible so our mission is to say that it is true to get that information out. >> so what is in your self-interest? you can say left to right. to except the world as it is in he in fact, recruited people in saul alinksky was a major contributing reason why the churches are now democratic voting blocs so he was effective but not dogmatic. >> is there any concern that that was unfair?. >> i don't believe so. that information is extreme public interest because it is an earthshaking. and though with jeff zucker told him that to drop the investigative journalism only focus on russia and said it was all about money. >> guest: then in the secret corridors of elevators but with extreme

saul alinksky. thank you, everyone, for participating. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's television companies and is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. [inaudible conversations] >> good evening to barnes and noble upper west side senior national correspondent focusing on political coverage over a the magazine and cambridge news previously a senior editor of the of the antic also written for the new yorker and "esquire" and other publications his new book tonight is devil's bargain which the "new york times" calls deeply reported in compulsively readable. the number one the year times best-seller this week. [applause] joshua green. >>. >> i am always amazed with all of the donald trump and steve bannon that we are subjected to in our daily lives they want to come out and get more of it but i am gratified. i have been advised people and nonfiction book readings really want them to hear the author read and from the book so i will read a short section in them sure there's a lot of questions but i wi