and allen weisselberg., obviously so could don jr., allen weisselberg and the big man himself. >> do you think allen weisselberg looks at you as a cautionary tale in some ways? do you think he will flip? >> i think allen's stupid if he doesn't because what they did to me, i mean, they came down with the full weight and authority of the u.s. government, especially this corrupt -- the former corrupt department of justice with bill barr. it was nothing that i had ever experienced before. it was like being stuck between a tsunami and, you know, and a typhoon all at the same time. they should be doing the same thing to him. they should go after his son barry, his son jack, barry worked for the company. jack was one of two lenders, deutsche bank and ladder capital. why is it they're not pressuring him that way. i wouldn't be shocked down the road to find folks like allen weisselberg, jeff mcconny and others actually already providing information and testimony to the attorney general, i should say to the district

this person may have reason to provide and cough up more information than allen weisselberg with deepeals, his taxes and perhaps what some of these assets were worth. i'm joined by david corn from mother jones. david, take it away. >> we have two cases basically going. as you noted, allen weisselberg, the cfo at the trump organization was indicted basically on a tax scam, you know, finding ways to hide income to himself and others who worked for the trump organization. the case that the accountant is involved seems to be a question whether trump would in some cases inflate the value of his properties. if you want to get a loan for a bank, you want to say this property i have is worth a lot of money. then you can use it as collateral in essence. or if you're trying to talk to the tax man about property taxes on the same property, you say, oh, it's not worth anything. it's a dump. i can't sell it. and so are you basically acting in good faith in either of those instances? and so the accountants have a lot of information. the information starts with donald trump, which they put together,

well, today maybe that could happen now, and he tells us why he thinks allen weisselberg is not the keysecutor's probe. he's going to join me at 1:00 p.m. he's got a bunch of nfts going on if you're interested in that. you're not going to want to miss this segment. come on back for that. n back fo. at progressive, we love your pets as much as you do, like this guy in a hat. that's why progressive car insurance covers your pets for up to $1,000 if they're ever in a car accident with you. this mini majorette's gonna march her way right into your heart. -i'm sorry. can we stop? i know that we're selling car insurance here, but, you know, all the cute little animals, it's too much. define "too much." what's wrong with cute animals? -so are we doing this or what? -nah, it's over. [ sighs ] well, someone's got to break the news to mittens. [ squeaks softly ] she's a diva. [ mittens squeaking ] bye mom. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when ever

soful prosecutors want to show allen weisselberg phonied up documents it was at the direction of donaldwas charged and confessed to in the michael cohen case. >> right. >> that he acted at the direction of donald trump. >> so you're certain he's going to be indicted, then what? >> oh, yeah, they would not have done all of this and many things i know about. mark palmer asked his special prosecutor to shut down his very lucrative law office to work for government pay? yeah, they'll indict him. i think there will be a tax charge, but the key charge will be racketeering. >> do you think, considering knowing cy vance, how he's investigated trump for the better part of two years it will happen before his term ends which is december 31st. and if so, if the indictment comes down, whether or not in the next two weeks or the new year, what happens next? >> well, how quickly it's going to come is a matter of how quickly they can go through the 5 million pages of documents they got after trump lost a second time before the supreme court. they were expecting about 1 million documents they got about

he worked directly with allen weisselberg and trump preparing a number of financial documents was that trump used to get loans and recorded on taxes. and i think that the really important thing here is that they are pursuing criminal charges against trump. they need to prove intent. there is more in benders possession possibly and indefinitely in his knowledge. about whether or not trump directed him to do things. they go beyond just the financial documents themselves. if bender is a material witness who can show that donald trump was told, he might be breaking the law, and went ahead and did it anyway and directed them to do that to keep their jobs, that is an important moment in this whole case. donald bender is a very important witness. >> neil katyal, let's consist or when -- this is at the district court level. donald trump can appeal it. surely will appeal. it but it is another one of those federal judges. and in this case a trump appointee, who is crushing every single argument made by donald trump and his lawyers. >> absolutely lawrence. and trump is getting used to that. i thi

attorney's criminal investigation of the trump organization in that case, the company's former cfa on allen weisselberggedly involved giving himself and other executives off the book benefits including luxury vehicles. >>> late word today, at least 49 people are dead and dozens more hurt after officials say a cargo truck carrying migrants from central america rolled over on a whey and crashed onto a bridge it happened in chiappa state in southern mexico. here you see rescuer crews pulling survivors from the scene. local officials say at least 40 were seriously hurt. they say it's unclear what caused the crash but officials say there the sheer weight of the migrants in the truck may have caused it to tip over more than 100 people were paktd into that vehicle they tell us at least 49 of them died >>> military families in hawaii are facing a water crisis. hundreds of people have been forced from homes. and some say they've gotten sick after the navy detected petroleum in the drinking water. now military officials say they discovered a second contaminated water supply the hawaii health department reports t

you talk to allen weisselberg, trump's coo in early 2020.second in command of that organization in late 2020. so if you're building up the organization, that's the way you would do it. but the problem is, as you said, there's this also criminal investigation at the same time, looking at many of the same subjects. and i think trump's argument will be, when he probably seeks to quash this subpoena, look, this is an attempt to get around my protections in the criminal case. they say they want this for a civil case, but if i say something they can use against me in a criminal case, they will. it's a back door in making him testify in a criminal case, when normally that wouldn't happen under new york law. >> jill, i have about 30 seconds. you know what that means. i want your final thoughts. >> david absolutely correct. there is a difference between the civil and the criminal. and the big difference is intent. the intent that has to be proved for a criminal case makes it much harder to be successful, so there is a way to proceed for the fraud tha

defraud in the first degree by the prosecutors in new york and does his chief financial officer, allen weisselbergump in a deposition and frankly what his lawyers will advise him to do is plead the fifth amendment against self-incrimination and not answer any questions. that puts him in a bit of a trick bag because, in a criminal case, if you plead the fifth, it can never be held against you. in a civil case, if you plead the fifth, it can be held against you because a trial jury in the civil trial will be instructed you pled the fifth and the jury can draw negative inferences against you and your case as a result. actually these walls are closing in on donald trump, albeit in a civil case because that's what tish james has brought against the trump organization. >> glenn kirschner, we always appreciate you waking up early an joining us. thanks so much. >>> coming up, picking up the pieces. debris from destroyed buildings, twisted metal and downed power lines covering mayfield in kentucky. we'll go back on the ground next. even when you're not work. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your sa

did you direct allen weisselberg to change the books here? because in a civil lawsuit, the pleading the fifth amendment there actually gains you something in the totality of the case. it is something you can present to the jury. whereas on the criminal side, i plead the fifth, you get nothing from me, you better get this on your own in your own investigation. that's where the two things are separate. how much this actually helps the criminal investigation -- >> it could color the jury's opinion in a civil suit. >> 100%. >> rebecca, i know it's a big open question, as tom said, unlikely that he would answer questions in a civil deposition. but if he did, i mean, how does that affect his criminal case? >> you know, if i were his lawyer, i would be extremely reluctant to let him testify. i mean, you don't really have as many choices in this particular situation but anything he says under these circumstances could expose him in that criminal case. so you have this individual who is just notoriously undisciplined and believes that his intuition is

there were times that i was asked again with allen weisselberg, the cfo. >> uh-huh. >> to go back andspeak with an individual from forbes because mr. trump wanted each year to have his net worth rise on the forbes wealthiest individuals list. >> ab on session. that was donald trump's former fixer, michael cohen, testifying to congress about the lengths trump would go to in order to secure the best possible spot on the forbes list of billionaires. it turns out that obsession of trump's is now a focus of the criminal investigation into the former guy and his businesses by the manhattan district attorney. randle lane this week testified before a new york grand jury about an article published in his magazine in 2014. lane says he was asked to confirm, quote, that trump told me i look better if i am worth $10 billion than if i am worth $4 billion as reported in the article. more specifically, that trump told me that a higher net worth number quote was good for financing. he was also on with our colleagues at "morning joe." here's what he said about his testimony. >> they were really focuse