susan swain: allida black? allida black: sure. i don't think that had anything to do with women testifying before the court. what about you? thomas culbertson: well, president hayes did sign the legislation that allowed women to practice before the supreme court, but it just so happened that the bill was placed in front of him and he couldn't figure out a way to not sign it. allida black: to go around it, yeah. thomas culbertson: so -- yeah, i mean, that's pretty much it. susan swain: anything more for that caller, though, on the influence, again, that she might have had on his thinking? thomas culbertson: i don't think there was -- there was much. i mean, they -- they agreed on most things, but she knew better than to try to lobby him hard on anything. allida black: and i think if the influence occurred, it occurred much earlier when they were beginning -- when he was practicing law in ohio. and she helped change his assessment of abolitionists who he thought were extremists. susan swain: tony pistilli wants to go all the way bac

allida black, welcome. and 1876, this country is joyously celebrating its 100th centennial of the declaration of independence, and it's an election year. and the election is greatly contested with no clear victor. tell us about the atmosphere with which the hayeses arrive at the white house. what was it like? ms. black: well, susan, it's pretty schizophrenic, i mean, to tell you the truth. we've just come out of the -- you know, the centennial celebration. and they're coming to the white house, but they don't even know if they're actually going to move into the white house, because the election is not yet decided. what's happened is, is that samuel b. tilden and rutherford b. hayes were in at that point one of the closest elections in the united states. and tilden wins the popular vote, but there are three states where the vote is so tight that the parties are tackling each other, you know, each -- each -- the republicans are saying we won, the democrats said, no, we won. so hayes goes to bed and thinks he'

we heard from allida black.our comments about the skills she brought to this job as she entered the white house. >> she was a partner to rutherford, a sounding board to him. she was able to engage people one-on-one and to make anybody she talked with think they were the only person in the room and the only person she wanted to talk with. >> the election did not end after they were sworn in. there was a congressional inquiry. here is one quote where he said, sometimes i feel a little worried. this press and annoyance going on, i keep myself outwardly very calm -- what do we learn of her? >> she is defensive and has a bit of anger in her. >> she sounds like a good politician in her own right, able to mask the inner. >> one of my favorite things about that is it shows her passion to hold it in. at the end of the civil war, she was furious and everyone started talking about a reconciliation and forgiveness. she was saying, mercy is one thing but we have to have justice in mercy, which just shows her. >> i like to in