that discussion is coming up and upfront the giving us to discuss this is amanda barto and is really american professor of holocaust and genocide, studies at brown university. stephanie fox, the executive director of jewish voice for peace and homework. but the political analyst and commentator and former deputy director of the american institute. thank you all so much for joining me. i'm gonna start with you up for always masses attack, both as rarely and western officials have repeatedly invoked israel's right to defend itself. us president biden's anti semitism on void deborah lips that went further saying, quote, no one has the right to tell it is real how to defend itself. but israel's responses had devastating humanitarian consequences. space have the right to defend themselves within the limits of international law. but they also have to consider proportionality, where is the line between israel's right to the bins and the total that it's taking on the palestinian people? mark, i'll take it a step back and say, even before we get to the question of proportionality is to rememb