amb. volker: lets pause for a second. paul, you are saying we created theyray zone to it we said could be members of nato, and we do not follow through. they aspire to that and russia does not like it, and it is a limbo. underneath that, i would argue that it is a question as to whether russia has a legitimate say or voice as to what these countries ought to do. the only reason it is an issue, the only reason nato's allies are uncomfortable with this is because of their relationship with russia. so it is kind of giving russia and offensive to say, yeah, you get to decide what these countries do. i would argue that it is not for us to say whether russia has a veto which is exercised. neither ukraine or georgia is a member of nato. to makeone is likely any progress towards becoming a member of nato in any politically relevant timeframe. that has been pushed very far into the future. i if you ask me, what would want, i would want a situation arehich russia's concerns discussed in some kind of a mechanism that allows for the

[laughter] amb.r: russia occupies parts of georgia and has annexed crimea, and it is still actively involved militarily in these places. it does take away territorial integrity and sovereignty of these countries. what should be the goal of the united states? what should our objective be? mr. graham: the first question you have to ask is what time period you're looking at. in broad terms, our strategic objective would be to restore territorial integrity. question is, how do you get there and in what time frame? what sequence of steps have the best chance of getting us there? amb. volker: so you say we should restore territorial integrity given the framing. tell us your pathway. mr. graham: you cannot put it in the limited context of ukraine. the problem we have with russia is you cannot solve the issue of isolation. everything is linked to russia. syria is linked to ukraine. europe is linked to what they are doing in east asia. so we need a holistic, comprehensive approach to russia. we have to decide

amb. pinzon: thank you for that question.i believe that is a very important and relevant question for the time. first, i think what we have done in colombia, it has worked ,ffectively for several years was building, what we did for a lot of time. you can criticize and have different opinions on farc and , butgenda and strategy those of us who have been working on this for a long time, we find this as a tool to use with results. the result was the complete turnaround of colombia, from a feeling nation to a vibrant democracy, active economy, and a country with a democratic agenda to the future. that is what happened to colombia. many others in washington feel proud of that. ,rom the colombian perspective we have increased investment. the economy has grown. it is a strong base of security indicators. , from the end of , theyear around this time importance of the understanding that we were going to enter into a new phase. the use of force was not now the only thing we were going to do, but in the country, we were going to focus o

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if you have a choice between two, the statute allows you to choose between amb and on a clean slate youf the court has chosen see when the statute gave you a and b, then that is clearly erroneous. everybody thinks that does not deserve starry decisive. now with due process get people sang constantly, i think that what we have done, that let's say the slaughterhouse caisson -- that it is wrongly decided. will my point of mcdonald is not i have the answer. answer. i didn't say that. i said if everybody agrees is wrongly decided then why are we applying it? [laughter] it's as simple as that. i think we have to do more than's about. we have to say we are not applying for these reasons. well it leaves you wanting the next donation. >> right. >> i wasn't trying to grandstand. and that goes back -- we'll him and i split nation. even if we cannot the other way you oh him an explanation. we explanation. we all agree, slaughterhouse is wrongly decided. it has had a profound effect on this country. you know it and i know it that when you guarantee citizenship to people the immunities on people and

amb., think you for your time.all, searching for equality beyond black-and-white. >> good afternoon and welcome to the national press club. my name is thomas burr i'm the washington correspondent for the salt lake tribune and the 109th president of the national press club. our guest is kareem abdul jabbar. i would like to welcome public radio and c-span audience but i want to remind you you can follow the action live on twitter. now it's time to introduce our head table guest. i ask you some to stand as i mention your name. mr. wilber washington correspondent for the new york times who covers the justice department. mr. lori, reporter at the washington post. mrs. richardson with airbnb. bruce johnson reporter and anchor at w usa tv. john hughes, editor for bloomberg's first were d.c. and the 108th president of the national press club. eric holder, the former atty. general of the united states. skipping over our speaker for just a moment, health policy correspondent for npr. thank you allison. founder of icon ami ll