amey, down on the end. >> i totally agree. i believe there's constitutional protection for secrecy but at the same time as tom said in his statement, you have to get to his point three. that is don't trust it. eventually we have to get down to a point whether it's through the challenge process or through briefings that congress gets on questioning what the xav branch is doing. >> you look at some of these things, some of these agencies. the anti-trust division at the department of justice. the bureau of prisons has somebody who's an original classification authority. you know, mr. leonard, how did it get to be that point? is that really necessary in those instances? >> it's an example perhaps of when i was in my position at isu, one of the things i had to do was to deal with requests for agencies to get original classification authority. and quite frankly, one of the issues that i had to contend with is it was one of convenience more than anything else. and there were a number of instances where there were agencies or even sma

amey, down on the end. >> i totally agree. i believe there's constitutional protection for secrecy but at the same time, as tom said in his statement, you have to get to point number three. that is don't trust it. eventually we have to get down to a point whether it's through the challenge process or through briefings that congress gets on questioning what the executive branch is doing. >> you look at some of these things, some of these agencies. the anti-trust division at the department of justice. the bureau of prisons has somebody who's an original classification authority. you know, mr. leonard, how did it get to be that point? is that really necessary in those instances? >> it's an example perhaps of when i was in my position at isu, one of the things i had to do was to deal with requests for agencies to get original classification authority. and quite frankly, one of the issues that i had to contend with is it was one of convenience more than anything else. and there were a number of instances where there were agencies o

scott -- is it amey? i want to make sure i pronounce that properly, mr. scott amey, general counsel for the project on government oversight. we thank you for being here. all witnesses are to be sworn before they testified. if you will please rise and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? thank you, you may be seated. let the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative. in order to rye how will time for discussion we would appreciate your limiting your verbal comments to no greater than five minutes so members can have ample time to ask questions, your entire written statement and extraneous materials will be entered into the record. mr. leonard, you're now recognized for five minutes. and the microphones in this committee, you have to straighten them up and put them right up uncomfortably close. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. cummings, members of the committee, appreciate the opportunity to be -- to attend this m

amey? >> that's a tough act to follow. good morning, chairman chaffetz, ranking member cummings, and members of the committee. pogo recognized the difference and has developed new ways to conceal information. impede sharing. and harm efforts to identify and remedy waste, fraud, and abuse. the 9/11 commission said it simply. secrecy, while necessary, can also harm oversight. sometimes the result of classification is not for the legitimate need of secrecy but the concealment of embarrassing information which creates public distrust. there are five main points i would to briefly discuss today. overclassification, retroactive classification, controlled unclassified information, treatment in handling cases, and finally, exclusive branch use of secret laws. in overclassification, overclassification might be a form of either excessive redactions or improper markings. reports by the national security archive and isu show that the classification process is mostly heading in the right direction and we have seen some improvement over

amey? >> i agree. >> we still have a serious problem. there may be some improvements but we so this is problem with sharing information even when potential threats are hanging in the balance of our country. in the mix of all of that, also came up earlier is the ability of congress to do our job. how serious is the issue, or is it at all an issue where agencies are over classifying to either collocate or obstruct congressional oversight? >> honestly you're probably in a better position to answer that. i think it's the exception not the rule. >> okay spent i think average the agency intelligence community has in a sense the worst culture problem. you can't bring out notes. you can't have static how are you going oppressors consideration over some of the most important and sensitive and deadly operations of our entire government? >> all right. >> it inevitably occurs whether intentional or not, and begin the lack of accountability. >> at its white in any oversight or any new commission that's going to be paneled her to take a look at overcl

amei you know, we can say that tha 21 million people haveeople h obamacare that wouldn't haveldn it. it. but a lot of those are functionally uninsured theyonal can't afford the deductibleslyfd have almost no choice in choe in physician so they don't usen y o their insurance anyway.r we got toin get these peoplese o cared for.re >> all rightd dr. kevin dr. k campbell thanks so much.ll thank we appreciate yourr perspective. >> thanks for having me. >> ?? >> psi friends for company.friends for >> we've got puppies in the ududio. when it's 5 at 6:30 comes:30 coe ght t back. >> they're not even sleepy.n slp >> ?? >> laugh. >> so you know president bill clinton has stopped the cat and buddy the ru known has retriever. president george w. bush's petgu was barney the scottish portuguese water dogs bow and sunny.su there are into rumored petsumors for president-elect donald trump.esid >> a lot get their dogs from doo breeders. why not rescue one. judge and murdoch who is who.ho >> judge and mr. doing.nd mr. di >> yes. >> tell us a little bit aboutusa these guys and l obviously weio know it wi

amey? >> that's a tough act to follow. good morning, chairman chaffetz, ranking member cummings, and members of the committee. pogo recognized the difference and has developed new ways to conceal information. impede sharing. and harm efforts to identify and remedy waste, fraud, and abuse. the 9/11 commission said it simply. secrecy, while necessary, can also harm oversight. sometimes the result of classification is not for the legitimate need of secrecy but the concealment of embarrassing information which creates public distrust. there are five main points i would to briefly discuss today. overclassification, retroactive classification, controlled unclassified information, treatment in handling cases, and finally, exclusive branch use of secret laws. in overclassification, overclassification might be a form of either excessive redactions or improper markings. reports by the national security archive and isu show that the classification process is mostly heading in the right direction and we have seen some improvement over

scott amey, general counsel on the project for government oversight.e welcome you and thank you for being here. pursuant to committee rules, all witnesses are to be sworn before they testify. if you will please rise and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? thank you. you may be seated. let the record reflect all witnesses answered in the affirmative. in order to allow time for discussion we would appreciate you limiting your verbal comments to no greater than five minutes to members have ample time to ask questions. your entire written statement and extraneous materials will be entered into the record. mr. leonard, you're now recognized for five minutes. the microphones in this committee, you have to straighten 'em up and put 'em right up uncomfortably close. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman, mr. cummings, members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to attend this meeting this morning. the ability and authority to cl

amei i think it was better in that case. long story short i went t. high school, american public high school and started taking classes and i finished high school in four years. by the time i finished high school i thought yes i can speak english now. after high school i decided to go on to college and i didn't feel -- i stay constant in my conversation with the level of english. but i didn't realize her after i transfer to a four-year higher, i started to realize there's a difference between conversational english. i just haven't learnedconversatn conversational english but i could express my thoughts and my feelings or even write a short essay. going to college was completely a different world. the first assignment i was asked to write about the difference between wisdom and knowledge and socrates' terms. and i was like first of all do people actually write 5 - 10 pages? even when i go with my friends they would start asking mike by the way, what did you think about -- and i said i don't even know who that is.. so i think it is different. definitely

scott amey, want to make sure i've pronounce that properly at the product of government oversight. thank you for being here pursuant to committee rules. all witnesses are to be sworn before they testify. these brazen -- rising rates are right hand hand. do solemnly swear from the testimony about to give the pictures come a whole truth and nothing but the truth? thank you did let the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative. to allow time for discussion we would appreciate your limiting your verbal comments to no greater than five minutes some members have ample time to answer questions. your entire written statement and extraneous materials entered into the record. mr. leonard can be recognized for five minutes. microphones in this committee have to straighten that out but then write up uncomfortably close. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. khan may become a member of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to attend this meeting this morning. the ability authority is a critical tool of the federal government and leaders to protect our nation and c