andrew harding, our correspondent, is inside the court.th us here on the bbc as we make sure you get all the latest developments. and that became our passion. to always build something better, airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. that redefine comfort and connect the world like never before. after all, you can't turn dreams into airplanes unless your passion for innovation is nonstop. ♪ you drop 40 grand on a new for innoset of wheels,top. then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is, why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. >>> welcome to "bbc world news." here are our top stories. the athlete oscar pistorius is found guilty of culpable homicide over the killing of his girlfriend reeva

my colleague andrew harding has this report on the implications now for oscar pistorius. >> reporter: oscar pistorius shortly after he had killed reeva steenkamp. from the very beginning, he insisted it was a terrible mistake, that he and reeva seen arriving at his home a few hours earlier were very much in love. >> i was simply trying to protect reeva. i can promise that when she went to bed that night, she felt loved. >> reporter: in court, but not shown on the cameras, pistorius maintained that he shot through his bathroom door, convinced an intruder had broken into his home. his grief and regret were compelling. >> and i sat over reeva and i cried. and i don't know how long i was there for. she wasn't breathing. >> reporter: pistorius's defense made much of the athlete's vulnerability as a disabled man, confronting a perceived threat. >> his capacity to walk without his prosthesis is poor. his balance is poor and he could easily be pushed over. when exposed to a threat, mr. pistorius is more likely to respond with a fight response rather than a flight response as his physical capa

andrew harding has the details from pedroia -- praetoria. >> it is judgment time.ramatic pause as oscar pistorius stands and waits. >> the unanimous decision of this court -- >> the judge get straight to the point. is the athlete a murderer? sectionunt one, with 511 of the criminal law, of 1997, the05 , anded is found not guilty instead is found guilty of culpable homicide. for once, a muted reaction. he had been warned yesterday to expect this lesser verdict, the equivalent of manslaughter. reeva steenkamp's family and friends try to contain their emotions. it has been a long ordeal. from the night the athlete shot reeva steenkamp, believing, as the judge now agrees, that an intruder had broken in, through pistorius's tearful evidence at his murder trial -- >> [loud weeping] >> to the anxious wait yesterday and today for a verdict. immediately afterwards, his uncle arnold thank the judge for reject in the charge of murder -- rejecting the charge of murder. >> we always knew the facts of the matter, and we had never any doubt in oscar's version. we as a family rema

andrew harding, bbc news. with ourre, i spoke correspondent in pretoria a short time ago. this has been an extraordinary verdict so far. you were outside when it was delivered. what was the reaction? >> the reaction was quite literally gasps. the judge came so close, we think, to saying she was going to find oscar pistorius guilty of culpable homicide, or manslaughter in another country, but then stopped absolutely in her tracks and said we must start again tomorrow. it has been a morning of reaction. we thought it would be quite slow, quite deliberate, but it came so quickly -- the way she discounted a lot of the prosecution's entire case, going through their evidence and saying she was not going to accept a lot of the circumstantial evidence, and proved the on d reasonable doubt that oscar pistorius is guilty of premeditated murder of riva -- reeva steenkamp. and then she went on to say she was not going to convict him of a lesser kind of murder under south african law. right now, we're hearing she is going to find him guilty of culpable homicide. she talked about how he

with me, my colleague andrew harding. it all moved very fast. >> it did, didn't it? it was extraordinary. the judge taking a sledgehammer to much of the prosecution's case. she dismissed ultimately the evidence of all those neighbors who insisted they heard a woman screaming. dismissed the speculation that the couple had been rowing. all those text messages. the prosecution tried to show meant that surely oscar and reeva were having some terrible relationship, and that he must have deliberately gone into that toilet to kill her. and we are left with the defense's case -- and what was interesting is that initially judge masipa made a great deal about the discrepancies between oscar pistorius's various versions of what happened in those critical few seconds, when he was standing, pointing his gun at the bathroom door. she went through all these different versions, that it was an accident, that he knew someone was coming out and he fired either intentionally or voluntarily. a lot of people in court thought we're heading toward some sort of murder charge. and then just i

. >> phillies and pirates, phillies up three-two in the fifth when jerome williams gets hit hard, andrew with the rare inside the park home run, and national league mvp, hits his third of the season. pirates, belted out 13 hits. two batters later russell martin hits a home run off williams the more conventional way, over the wall, phillies lose six-three. same two teams go tomorrow. >>> acrobatic took the stage at wells fargo center in south philadelphia. it was opening night for cirque du soleil's verakai. audience was treated to costumes and nail biting high flying acts, the show, verakai runs through sunday. >>> jimmy kimmel live next, followed by night line. jimmy's guest queen latifah and dale earnhardt junior and music from panama wedding. "action news" continues at 4:30 with tamala edward, stop it. matt o'donnell, meteorologist, david murphy and dave. for cecily tynan, ducis rodgers and the entire "action news" team, i'm jim gardner. good night. >>> from hollywood, it's "jimmy kimmel live"! tonight -- queen latifah. dale earnhardt jr. and music from panama wedding. with cleto and

. >> phillies and pirates tonight, phillies up three-two when jerome williams gets hit hard. andrewl hit the rare inside the park home run. he has 23 home rips this season. >> wow. >> too batters later, russell martin hits a home run the conventional way. pirates had 13 hits. phillies lose six -three. >>> big cue for jay wright and villanova jaylen brownson has chosen the wildcats. 6-foot one guard is considered a top 25 recruit, he averaged 21.5 points per game last season, as a junior. that is sports. >> ducis, thank you. >>> update now to that tiny tip eagles player, lesean mccoy left while dining at pyt in northern liberties. now another celebrity is stepping in and helping out the waiter. check out this receipt posted on the restaurant's facebook page. it appears mccoy left 20 cents tip on a $62 bill. mccoy reportedly felt he was mistreated inside the restaurant. well to day charlie sheen tweeted that he is pledging $1,000 to rob the wait shore was stiffed. he said just want to help with the hash tag no judgment. >>> what is going on with weather. >> you know what it is like to

thank you for your hard work, andrew colette, and the cbi scotland team arranging this annual budget dinner. i would also really like to say a special thank you to ian mcmillan, director of cbi scotland due shortly to retire. you should have a very happy retirement. thank you very much for everything you have done for cbi and scotland especially during the last few months were the political debate has become increasingly intense. [applause] and delighted to welcome the prime minister david cameron here tonight. it's a great leisure to have you here, prime minister. glasgow has until recently has been teeming with people from every corner of the commonwealth. not unlike the 19th century when glasgow was heralded as the second city of the british empire. it has been one of the most recent art dust devils in edinburgh. now the eyes are on scotland for the final decision you have to make on september 18. your friends and allies all the way around the world in europe and beyond hope you make the right decision. turning briefly to the u.k. economy, i'm really pleased with the predictions f

. >> phillies and pirates, phillies up three-two in the fifth when jerome williams gets hit hard, andrewnside the park home run, and national league mvp, hits his third of the season. pirates, belted out 13 hits. two batters later russell martin hits a home run off williams the more conventional way, over the wall, phillies lose six-three. same two teams go tomorrow. >>> acrobatic took the stage at wells fargo center in south philadelphia. it was opening night for cirque du soleil's verakai. audience was treated to costumes and nail biting high flying acts, the show, verakai runs through sunday. >>> jimmy kimmel live next, followed by night line. jimmy's guest queen latifah and dale earnhardt junior and music from panama wedding. "action news" continues at 4:30 with tamala edward, stop it. matt o'donnell, meteorologist, david murphy and dave. for cecily tynan, ducis rodgers and the entire "action news" team, i'm jim gardner. good night. primetime address to the nation he dent pull any punches. abc's john than carl has details. >> reporter: a remarkable moment forte reluctant warrior. >>

top of the tim, andrew mccutcheon watch him rope this one and the hard off the centerfield fence. revere has no shot. watch the bounce. mccutcheon can absolutely fly. you know where this is headed. here' the relay throw from chase utley. he scores standing up inside the park homerun. game tied at three. >> two batters later russell martin hammers a solo shot into the seats at left center. phillies lose this one, six to three. >>> michael vick the latest to spec out on the ray rice situation which, you know, we told you about earlier. here's the former eagle who himself knows a little something about a come back. >> obviously i think everybody deserves a second chance, everybody, you know, regardless of, you know, what, you know, what has been done and depending on the magnitude of the crime. it will be a grace period, you know, i think, you know, we all got to sit back and reflect on what's been done. >> oftentimes in sports health, luck and good fortune play as big a role as heart and skill. one of the eagles five offensive lineman missed a start last year. there's a rare feat af

over the last two 2 weeks your staff has worked hard to address those concerns and bringing this contract back to you with andrew commitment now paying those union scale wages. a happy ending it would seem. sf near maet t mta gets services. hardly. when it comes too easy to be true, it usually is. the red flag is flashing a warning here to take a hard look. the time for due diligence is now and not when the problems begin. only three companies submitted a bid which is the largest contract in the bay area. that should have you call for questions. the two union companies, abc security and cyber security who are aware of the wages both bid i dental cal numbers, 6.4 numbers. andrew 8.9 million. 25 percent less. of course at the time andrew submitted it's bid it was not required to pay union scale. andrew has not promised to do that and it's worth noting that andrew to this day does not know the wages and benefits to this officer as they didn't know this and potential bidders did. this is voodoo map and it requires andrew to demonstrate how they can perform on this contract with those prices which is primarily wages

and finally, i think andrew's point is right. it's very hardto run that kind of operation out of washington. one of the lessons i took out of being in iraq so long was that tactically, it is much better to devolve it down to the field. i'm not sure how that you coordinate with embassies in places like baghdad and riyadh and ankara. that's the trick for responsibility to be laid out very clearly, not just in the administration but also to the congress and the public. >> one of the thing we just need to because doesn't of and to manage -- what we are talking about is revamping up the war. let's be candid about this. when we reramp up the war, the humanitarian crisis is going to metastasize. i'm not saying that's not the right policy or not the right thing to do. this reminds me of the 2007 surge -- to get casualties down, they had to go up first. we need to be prepared for that and mitigated as best we can, but we need to prepare ourselves and the american people for an increase in -- it's already a catastrophe. i do not have a better word for th

hard. >> before you started working for andrew cuomo. >> i tried to get a job at the u.s. attorney's office and failed. i tried to get a job at major foundations. then i tried to get a job on hillary's campaign but i did not have any experience to get it a position. andrew gave me why one big opportunity. serviced about public and why it's important and to fight what you believe in. i went up to him and i said i love your speech but i think politics is an insider's game and i don't know how to get from a to b. he gave me a job on the spot. i went down a couple days later and got the job. that's what started me in my public service career. >> collections are who you fight for. -- elections are who you fight for. you would have to ask governor patterson -- >> and senator schumer. in perhaps even secretary clinton. is i aha moment in that was never sure. secretary clinton was elevated. i had just won my reelection to the house, a 24-point margin. we are at disney world. i start seeing these articles about how hillary has been appointed to the secretary of state. should i put

but a top fund manager is warning investors to think long and hard before putting down their money. andrewstevens joins us now from hong kong. explain to us, why should people be so cautious. what's the background to this? >> the fund manager you refer to is mike mobius, an emerging markets expert. and he's always been very, very strong about shareholder rights. and this is his don certain with alibaba, that shareholders don't have enough protection, don't have enough rights. there are two specific issues that he's been looking at. one is the way the management works. basically there's a work of 27 founders, including the biggest player in alibaba that control so many aspects of alibaba including the direction of the company. they have that exclusive right to do that. and mike mobius says that minority shareholders will just have to go with the flow. they don't have any say in how alibaba is run, what it's doing right, what it's doing wrong. and another issue is if there were problems in the future, investor, shareholders will probably most likely have to chase that back through the chines

my main point being and back to this sort of regional coalition we're building, it's hard, like andrew and others were asking me do you think this administration is going to align with assad or iran when there were whispers earlier this year. i thought, no way. it doesn't make any sense. to solve the syria problem. in part, because of the regional coalition that we need to build and they are building right now. look back to november/december last year and all of the erratic, public protests from saudi arabia officials and others about the iran deal. and the need for the administration to go out with secretary hagel and other things. bill burns gave a speech. to embrace the gulf states and say, look. we're here. we're with you. that times ten i think in this -- if we were to sort of open up the door without consultation, working with iran. and beyond that i just see it as a very -- almost academic -- i mean, a nice idea but very hard to implement. perhaps one more question before we close. yeah. i've ignored this side of the room. sorry about that. >> to today's discussion and also abse

andrew spencer reports. >> the accusations against nolan are hard for his family to hear, in a video posted on line, womanho identifies herself as nolan's mother, says, there must be another side to the story. >> i know what they are saying. that he done but i'm going say he didn't, that's not my son. >> he was fired from an oklahoma plant last thursday, police say he came back later in the day attacking first people he saw using a knife to sever the head after woman in the front office, then stabbing another woman several times. police say nolan had a facebook profile under a different name, with posts cents cents appearing to support islamic radicals, members of nolan's mosque describe the recent convert as distant, quiet, even odd. >> could you tell that he was different from everyone else. but as far as violence, we never saw it coming. >> but a state troop here arrested noll nan 2010 saw a different side of him. at one point, she said, she had her gunpoint dollars at his back. >> if there had been anyway to know the things that he is alleged to have done couple of days ago, i would have killed him wh

the insider's thea andrews joins us from hollywood to look at the die-hard fan reaction when stars behave. >> reporter: with sec a look at their be asked after area. >>: pay was cut by the baltimore ravens. >>: some fantastic invite him and his wife. mike tyson returned. he has since returned in movies. >>: kobe bryant is making $30 million for year. >> reporter: he left jail in 2009 after participating in dogfighting. >>: >> pam:and again -- the insider airs tonight at 7:00. followed by entertainment tonight at 7:30, and then. kron 4 news at 8:00. i'll explain in the next edition of people became valley 29 a. >>: all the life i hotspots in the world will be on mobile networks. bill automatically pick of the wife died and use it for free all ltd. phone calls and texas as is. here's what about this using why fire on the phone was a people a lot of money on the dead plant. the life by everything will be free. this is overall a better signal service. maybe you're basically office all your friends out as long as is why presence in the area used all get a good signal for calls and fax messages

hard. >> rose: is then when you were working for andrew cuomo. >> this is before. first i tried to get a job at the u.s. attorney's office and failed and i tried at the major foundations and didn't get an interview and i tried to get a job on hillary's campaign when she became a senate candidate but i didn't have experience and didn't get a paid position. it was andrew gave me the opportunity when i went to a speech talking about public service and why it's important and to fight for what you believe in. i went up to him and said mr. secretary i love your speech but i really think politic is an insider's game and i don't know how to get from a to b. he gave me a job on the spot, he said if you come to washington and get an interview me i went down and got a job. that's what started me on my public service career. >> rose: you love politic. >> i find lessons are about who you fight for and it's an opportunity for people's voices to be heard by voting and being advocates for the candidates to care about. >> rose: how did you get the selection of the democratic nomine

northeast indiana and learn many lessons in life are my grandfather, andrew, my father, albert will stop working on a family farm is hardork, but i enjoyed it. i never fully understood the values i would learn while cleaning out, newer. god knew i would need that lesson when he sent need to congress. [applause] to brag a little bit about indiana. good things are happening in indiana. our economy is growing and we were listed by george mason university is the third freest date in the nation. it also doesn't hurt that we lived next door to illinois. in illinois, the politician philosophy is quite different. just like obama, they love big government. illinois politicians arrange with executors to airy them in chicago because they still want to be politically active after they die. [laughter] r

. >> guest: well, the conference world--you know, it's hard to imagine a hundred years ago that--like, andrew carnegie and john d. rockefeller sitting on a panel on the corporate responsibility of the corporation with mark twain as your celebrity moderator, but now i have a chapter on business life, how businessmen are all more like intellectuals, just as intellectuals are more like businessmen. and so now we all have to conference. we all sit on panel discussions, you know, where there's evenly bo--separated bottles of mineral water, and we're all sitting between them. we've got our five-minute prepared remarks. and the odd thing for academics especially--conferences are, like, sort of a status stock exchange. you can judge how many people showed up to sit in the audience for your panel discussion, how--are you on the same panel with the people with big names, big-named professors? are you the--the most famous person on the panel or the least famous? do they ask you questions at the end of the discussion or do they ask the other people? there are all these status markers going up and down. a

hard for me to do some reporting, but andrew is off-air in nantucket. he's probably been able to do a little more reporting and can give us insight here. any sense on what the back story is here? >> let me tell you what i do know. i just got off the telephone. i'm going to get rid of this, i have a little bit of back and forth. what i do know is the following. here is the relationship in terms of how bill gross ended up at janus. the ceo of janus is dick weill. dick used to be the coo of pimco. that's the relationship and where it came from. dick weill left pimco because of another problem, talk about a lot of infighting at pimco. dick weill didn't get along with who the ceo of pimco used to be, bill thompson. he left the company when mohammed alarian got there. what i think has happened here is the relationship between dick weill and bill gross is the reason that we are seeing him back now at janus. let me see if i can't get this back in my ear. i apologize. i can't speak -- i should say, i can't speak to whether he was pushed or left on his own voliti

andrews sorry commissioner hayon you want to say something. >> if we recommend a dismissal did that mean an employee would be dismissed or is it our recommendation only to terminate the employee i find it hard to believe anyone will implement that. >> it's our recommendation only a recommendation had we hope carry some wealthy we're not only a voice crying? wilderness an observation that something has been done that violates ethnical conduct whether or not the person gets suspended or dismissed we don't know. we've made the statement and i think it's an important statement to make. as i understand the proposal from commissioner andrews it is that after 90 days if a person did not file their form seven hundred we send a letter to the office of the individual or entity that has the authority to remove that person or discipline that person and say within 60 days the ethics commission will if they don't file we will make a determination about recommending further action against - and i would - i would tighten it up >> they're accountable and i would be more specific and i would move for suspension because again, we don't - there can be mitigating factors or other factors that we just don't know

hard. let's look at our weather. we are expecting cool temperatures in some areas. elsewhere, lincolnshire reading at 62. the st. andrewslite composite shows dry conditions. there is some rain in portions of eastern iowa and western wisconsin that will make its way here. we stayed try again for the extended stretch. today's high up to 76. typical high is 71. tonight slow down to 57. tomorrow, 78. saturday and sunday are nearly 80 with sunshine in time for the bears game. 77 degrees on monday. tuesday's temperatures come down to 73. >> a stick a look at the water main break. intersection of lawndale is shut down. we hear from police that traffic is getting by along this stretch. at dealing with heavy delays because of this spirit early morning is when this could happen. at this point it looks like this intersection is being repaired. grant is closed. this is a hazmat situation. gas leak from overnight everything from pulaski blocked off impacting the 65 cta bus. numbers look good. nothing we're too concerned with. and number of construction projects are kicking off. more on that coming up. >> coming up, and avenger has s

andrew, my father albert. working on a family farm it is hard work. i enjoyed it. can tell you i never fully understood the values that i would learn while cleaning out cow manure from the cow pens but god knew i would need that lesson when he sent me to congress. i have to brag a little bit about indiana. good things are happening in indiana. our economy is growing. we were listed by george mason university as the third freest state in the nation. it also doesn't hurt that we live next door to illinois. in illinois the politicians' philosophy is quite different. just like obama, they love big government. illinois politicians arrange with their executers to bury them in chicago because they want to be plitcally active after they die. you know, our values are under threat today. recently it has only become much worse. big government progressives are interested in marginalizing, dividing and silencing critics who provide a different point of view. they believe solutions are found in the federal government. we believe the american people have the answers. there are th

then finally, i think andrew's point is right. it is very hardn that kind of an operation out of washington. and one of the lessons i took out of being iraq so long, tactically much better to devolve it down to the field. i'm not sure how then you coordinate went ba is? places like baghdad and riyad and, ankara, it is hard. that is all more reasons for structure and reporting and responsibility to be laid out very clearly. not just in the administration but also to the congress and to the public? >> one other thing we need to be cognizant of, manage, what we are talking about in syria is reramping up the war. let's be candid about it. when we reramp up the war the humanitarian crisis will metastasize. i'm not saying saying that is tt the right policy or right thing to do. this reminds me of the 2007 surge. casualties down they had to go up first. but, we need to be prepared for that. we need to mitigate it as best we can. but i think we need to prepare ourselves, the american people for a increase in the, i mean it is already a catastrophe. i don

andrews in charlottesville, v.a. thank you, wyatt. >>> police in pennsylvania say the check of hard drive on a computer used by eric freints he planned the attack on two state troopers for a long time. frein still at large. he's accused of killing one trooper and injuring another. police say he also studied tactics for avoiding a police manhunt. authorities believe they have boxed frein into a five-square mile area of northeastern pennsylvania. >>> the justice department wants to ban police in ferguson, missouri, from wearing controversial bracelets. federal civil rights investigators wrote a letter asking police chief tom jackson to stop officers from wearing the bracelets that supports the white officer who shot and killed an unarmed black teenager michael brown. the bracelet reads i am darrynen wilson. >>> taylor will not participate in any team activities during a league investigation into the charges. he was arrested in michigan at the east lansing marriott hotel. taylor has a pretrial court date september for october 8th the same day the hornets are scheduled to open their preseason in philadelphia. >>> well l feve

planning and executing how to monetize your audience better than you, it's hard to be super sanguine on a long-term basis. >> andrew, make the case for yahoo! is it predicated on being a standloan company? >> if you look at it, simple math. what happened was the people did not get aloe case for alibaba enough and bought yahoo!. looking at alibaba valued, it is $216 billion. yahoo! is 16% of that. so that's taking no value into consideration for yahoo! japan or yahoo! in the united states so let's they alibaba if you're saying that yahoo! will goes down in value, alibaba will go down in value. i think they have a floor at $38. going down 20% at most, yahoo! has 3.5% to the downside and should be supportive and valuing yahoo! in the united states and japan at 0. they have a $1.15 in earnings per share. i don't understand why the company is trading at such a discount. i think this is a huge activist play. >> don't you think it's what max was talking about, just this fear that they just don't have a business model that can compete with other businesses that have been innovating where yahoo! is falling behind? >> they h

andrew schulz coming up right after this. ♪ that's why there's a listerine® product for every mouth. one to clean your whole mouth. one for those hard in oral care... there's a listerine® product for every mouth in your house. for cleaner, healthier mouths go beyond brushing alone. listerine®. power to your mouth ™. guess the mcmuffin doesn'tthe think hashbrowns matter. it's ok, hashbrowns... ...we still love you. the new am crunchwrap from taco bell. eggs, bacon, cheese, plus a very meaningful hash brown inside. wrapped and grilled to go. [bong] wrapped and grilled to go. have you guys heard about probiotics? for digestive health? yeah. and did you know trubiotics is a daily probiotic that helps in two ways? it supports digestive and immune health, by working in your gut where 70% of your immune system lives. hmm... try trubiotics today. we believe that everything can be improved. that's why we pushed ourselves to create new and improved degree motionsense, the only antiperspirant that keeps you fresher even as secret fades. protection improved. so you can do more. coors light answers. when cold refreshment calls... frost brewed co

hard to top this. derek jeter wows not just yankee fans but even nonsports fans during his final home game. before we go to break, here's dr. andrew on how much exercise you really need. >> i think you want to be active and being active means being active every day. i try to swim every day. when i'm home, i have two dogs that walk me every day. i love to walk. i work in my garden. i think the secret is to be active. some people say we need 20 or 30 minutes of intense exercise every kay >>> if you need a car wash or your carpet cleaned, you might want to do that really soon. the district's so-called tax takes effect and will add 6% to both those things. you'll have to pay the tax on health clubs too, bowling alleys, gyms, yoga. for the full list, go to our website nbcwashington.com and find out what you're going to be paying taxes on now. >>> teens undergoing procedures at a lower rate than recent years. results a new survey. and the guidelines teens should follow before considering going under the knife. welcome, welcome. good to see you. why is it going down, do you think? >> well, there's been a disturbing trend over the past tw

hard to get your head around. one way to describe it is you've seen thousands of protesters today peacefully gathering, surrounding you there, andrew, if maybe just one or two got out on the main street here in beijing and put out a placard they would be immediately whisked away by the security forces. so there are a lot more freedoms in hong kong, though those scenes we saw on sunday would be troubling to many who followed hong kong and china for some time. and this impasse between the protesters and the communist party doesn't appear to have any obvious way out. andrew? >> all right, david, thank you very much for that. david mckenzie joining us live from beijing. certainly, there are so many more freedoms in this part of china. but the people on the street, the tens of thousands of people who are now on the street are saying that they want more freedoms. natalie, they want the ability to choose their own leader in 2017 when the next elections will be held. they want true democracy. it does look very unlikely at this stage whether they're going to force the hand certainly of beijing but even of hong kong in that context. but we r