it was around that time that i ran into andrew schwartz, and andrew schwartz is another one of these top guys. and andrew was at the time working, still is, working on motor. he was working with trying to reproduce fluid dexterous movement and the robotic arm that would mimic an approach, the grace of the human body. he had incredible, i will not say luck results, and andrew, he's one of these guys that doesn't, he's unswayed by social charms. aunties interested in measurable and is interested in results. aunties interested in science. so i really kind of kept quiet around him a lot, but learned a tremendous amount from him here and one of the things he said was everybody in the field doesn't know what they're talking about. and so at this point i kind of start to realize here are the two top guys and they have these diametrically opposed views of the least each other, but they agree on the field or all of a sudden there's this narrative architecture of how i can tell this story and how i can enter into these rich intellectual questions and biological questions, evolutionary question