andrew sullivan. thanks so much for coming back. okay, andrew, let's have telephone. your side won, let's have your end zone dachblts you got the scalp of brendan eich, go? >> well, forgive me, i'm not going quite glochlt i actually think we have come a long way on gay rights because open, tolerance, persuaded people by reason and haven't jumped down everybody's votes who disagreed with us and call them a bigot and get them fired. i just don't like that kind of ten or and that impulse so punish people the things that they ser sin veerly believe. -- sincerely believe. laugh latch laugh-- (laughter) >> you have lost me here, you've lost me here for a second is that some kind of gay code that i'm to the getting? or something? how you can-- how you cannot, how you can-- you're gay married. >> i am very gay married. >> that guy didn't want you to be able to be gay married and you still think people without support gay marriage should still do business with him. >> not if they don't want to. but i think when people are forced to resign, when people start losing their jobs,

we have to get long with people whoe we disagree with. >> i agree with andrew sullivan. i don't want tim cook to lose his job or others to be forced out. why should we sit back and say it is okay if people push an executive out of positions because of his personal view. not that he's showing discrimination or acting customers in his job. don't people have a right to a personal right and personal view point. >> (applause) >> governor, i think you know perhaps better than many what it is like when you enter into the public life. you lose a sense of privacy and while these gentlemen and ceo's are not necessarily running for a political office. if you put yourself in a position as a ceo of a huge fortune 500 company and take a political stance, no matter what that is, you will be attacked for it. the real question is why are they caving. why did he leave. he was not forced out by the board of directors. >> yes, he was. no. that was virtually impossible for him to stay. there is a feeling of disappointment with the conservative in what chick- fil- a saying we will not talk ab

this was over-pressure. >> but i do agree with andrew sullivan.e have to be very careful that we are not practicing a new mccarthyism. >> on that note, we are unfortunately out of time. martha raddatz will be back in just a minute. raddatz will be back in just a minute. >>> back now at ft. hood. we honor our fellow americans who serve and sacrifice overseas. this week, the pentagon released the name of one soldier killed in afghanistan. >>> and before we go, a final note. we have been planning for a while to be at ft. hood today for a very different reason, the ten-year anniversary of a battle is sauter city that i covered throughout the decade. eight soldiers from ft. hood were killed. emotions pouring out at memorial service we attended. remembering the incredible bravery and sacrifice. we'll tell you more about that in an upcoming broadcast. but it is something very different when a soldier is killed on our nation's soil at his own base. and now this intensely tight-knit community has seen it happen again. we leave you with images from america'

andrew sullivan, captains great britain national team. joining us on that hah continuing issue about the la clippers in the states and internationally as well. >>> you've been watching "gmt." just to remind you about what has been our main story this hour. an exclusive report from the bbc team who have had rare access into syria's second city, former financial hub aleppo. the cameraman and journalist with the only broadcaster who visited since last year. thousands have been killed or named in the campaign. they think this world isn't big enough for the both of them. but we assure you - it is. bites. little greatness. rejoice... for you have entered the promised land of accomodation. ♪ booking.com booking.yeah! the was a truly amazing day. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today at angieslist.com do you know what happens when you eat activia ♪ ♪yday? activia helps regulate your digestive sys

. >> i was struck by andrew sullivan's piece, a prominent condemning the movement, forcing people out their own beliefs. there are people on both sides of this but the conversation about religious intolerance is once again front and center. >> i think coexisting is what this country is all about. tolerating people which is why we insist on freedom of speech and freedom of religion. contrary to the 10 commandments, you can worship any idle you want. -- idol you want. sometimes the points of view get heated on both sides. the civil rights movement, there was an honest cause and some within the movement that overstated the case and gave ammunition to the other side. i think the case of mozilla and the guy that was forced out, i think some among them may have overstated the case and given a poster child to their intellectual opposition if you like. that said, let me come back to your career. we know about your work with the police,but after the why composing? why did that tickle your fancy? it came and got me. just like drumming. i was going to be in media and a publishing mogul but i lik

we talked to andrew sullivan earlier, and he said, why didn't she call me.hy did you not feel the need to contact 4i78, for instance? >> i did contact evan olson. i spent two different sitdowns with him. i spoke to mark solomon. this was a book about a specific group of people. i wanted to write about what i saw and heard. and what i saw and heard was a group of people who went to court who, you know, who had these great hopes for the supreme court, who told their story. and that's a really interesting point. because when people tell their stories, it moves people. in this book, it's actually fascinating, the story of these plaintiffs so moved chuck cooper, the lawyer who fought them all the way to the supreme court, and when he saw them -- >> the personal story on this? >> when he saw them getting married, he said i couldn't help but rejoice in their happiness. >> whatever the controversy about this, and i think there are valid points being thrown at you, these are moving stories. and within the context of this case, what you chronicle is very valuable. tha

let's get out to andrew sullivan. drew, many people think this is a step in the right direction that you've got at least a little bit of stabilization in the inflation rate. what was your view today? >> i think it's a little bit disappointing. we didn't see growth over and above the rise in the sales tax. i think if we'd seen that number coming through in the tokyo number, it would have shown we have 100% pass through. the fact that we didn't probably shows the momentum is probably slowing slightly. >> yes. if you look at the reaction to abonomics, there is the feeling we had the sales tax increase that would be brought into effect, that would have a negative impact on the japanese market. the figures today suggest that japan has been largely able to ride out those effects. >> yes. we've only really seen the data or the impact of the sales tax on the tokyo numbers. the national numbers don't reflect that yet. that will come next month. i think that we're seeing some wage rises in japan. we're seeing some positive moves

. >> john, i will read something that get a lot of attention a blog by andrew sullivan on this story. >> episode disgusts me as it should disgust anyone interested in the tolerant and diverse society. if this is the gay rights movement today, with a fanaticism like the relidgous right, count me out. people look to you as a. prominent gay blogger and you have a different sullivan. >> andrew raises some good concerns that we should be careful about who we go after. if we have the power to destroy, use it wisely. in this case, you have a company that no corporate america is going to hire someone who is antisemite or or racist. i was on a slow and someone said if someone was a holocaust denier, i would be fine if they were a c.e.o. i 2409, nowhere but america. >> you describe brandon as an antigay activist when all he did was contribute $1,000 to proposition 8 six years ago. >> that does make you anti-gay advocate. the position was not just against gay merge but to repeal 18,000 gay marriages that existed in california. it was legal in the state and when you start talking about repealing

>> to play on that point, andrew sullivan wrote that he is worried that the lgbt move -- movement isbecoming no better than the anti-gay bullies. >> so he said there was no idea there is an intolerance streak. >> hadn't noticed it until today. >> good for him on the one hand. but come on. this has been going on for a longtime. we crossed this line. it wasn't just about tolerating other people's views. it was punishing people for not sharing yours. >> you know, a lot of things can change in six years. six years ago i voted for obama. i just lost all of my followers. >> i don't know if we can be friends. >> we willed dit that or drop that, right? >> start saying swear words. >> i pledge to sorority six years ago. >> why not come out though and say this is our official position. this is not the company's official position, but we respect the rights of everyone to have an opinion. we are not going to force anybody out because of that. >> here is my take on why people are viewing this differently. both sides are talking past each other. it depends on your mind-set regarding gay marriage.

. >> john, i want to read to you something that got a lot of attention blogged by andrew sullivan who said the following about the ouster. this whole episode disgusts me as it should disgust anyone who is interested in a tolerant and diverse society. if this is the gay rights movement today, hounding our opponent was a if a national simple more like the religious rights than anyone else, then count me out. a lot of people look to you as a prominent gay mroger, but you have a very different opinion. >> yeah. i think andrew raises some good concerns in the sense that we should always be careful about who we go after. if we have the power to destroy, we should use it wisely, fair enough. in this case, i think you have a company that -- no corporate america is going to hire someone who is an anti-semi or a racist. if someone was a hollow co haul denier, not -- >> you described brendan ike who neither of us probably heard of a week as as an anti-gay activist when all he did was contribute $5,000 to a proposition six years ago. >> his intention was to repeal gay marriages. when you start ta

. -- other gay comment taters like former comment tate tore andrew sullivan accused his side of bullying and intimidation. some liberals agreed that say hounding a man out of a job for taking the same position that broek barack obama and hillary clinton held in 2008. >> there is political fastism. >> we have to be very careful we're not practicing a new mckarthism. >> what about the -- the network couldn't find a -- deep on a inside page. while the new york times gave the story front page prominence, usa today stuck ton the business page with no hint of criticism of the company's move. now there's an online backlash which some say they are deleting the company's fire fox browser. public attitudes are clearing in shifting in favor of same-sex marriage. consider this, if a conservative company would have pushed out ceo for supporting gay marriage, there would have been outrage. >> the letter would argue, learner violated constitutional rights of citizens gave misleading information to investigators and inappropriately released private taxpayer information. criminal refers from congress to

>> you would find some dpraemt from an interesting source is andrew sullivan who is very liberal and pro gay rights activates. >> i don't want to bring this kind of political warfare into the workplace. we got to be able to get along with people we sincerely and passionately disagree with. >> why should we sit back and say it's okay if people push an executive out of positions because it is personal view? not that he's affecting their customers, not that he's showing discrimination or big to the tri on his job but don't people have a personal life in america and a personal viewpoint? >> i think you -- governor, i think you know perhaps better than many what it's like when you enter into the public life, how you do lose a huge sense of privacy and while these gentlemen, these ceos and gentle william are not not rupg -- if you are going to put yourself as a ceo of a for tune 500 company, you will be attack for it. the why are they caving? why did the chairman of mozilla leave? he wasn't forced out by his board of directors. he simply said i don't want to do this any more. >> it was vir

. >> some on the left hand have been outspoken from andrew sullivan. he's come out, he's our gay rights advocate and said this is ridiculous. others have. it's something the whole country -- >> it's growing. >> tucker, see you tomorrow morning. bright and early in the morning. i'll watch you in my pajamas drinking my coffee. >> i'm flattered. >> that's all i'll say. >>> many expecting an irs refund are in for a rather rude surprise. the government may be seizing your checks for a debt they may not owe at all. you will not believe this. we'll explain it next. >>> and hillary clinton escapes a shoe throwing incident unscathed but the media's credibility did take a hit and he's here to explain why. >> what was that a bat? that a bat? is that somebody throwing something at me? why relocating manufacturingpany to upstate new york? i tell people it's for the climate. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new

how they treat women or what have you, it was interesting andrew sullivan's column this week that hear and being not tolerant. but again, it feels to me like we kbet to say where we spend our money. >> absolutely. in the next decade or so, we're going to see even more consumer activism and shareholder activism as a way of holding corporate decision making accountable. so that point about have we gone too far? there are ceos who donated to mitt romney and john mccain. they didn't get protested against. one of the things i see from this example is that on the issue of marriage equality, it's no longer contested ground. you can support john mccain. that's contested ground whether you're democrat or republican. but marriage equality is seen as much as a civil rights issue is diverse couples in a public library. it is a civil rights issue of our time. i think that's a big victory for the marriage equality movement in this country. >> it's interesting because we have confronted this in the political sphere. i cited karl rove and he basically talked about how some of these big donors are af

>>> plus the book making andrew sullivan so upset. the story that wasn't included and the political risk president obama is taking by reform a broken system. plus why students have the entire world of sports watching. >>> good morning. i'm jonathan capehart in for melissa harris-perry. nerdland, the votes are in. 76 northwestern university football players were eligible to cast a secret ballot in one of the more publicized union votes in recent history. and that vote was held early friday morning. we don't know the results yet and we won't be getting any exit polling. not only were reporters not allowed anywhere near the vote, literally kept a certain distance away from the campus building where the players voted, but as the "chicago tribune" reported, we may not know for months what the players decided. why not? northwestern, the university, not the football team, filed an appeal with the national labor relations board on april 9th to overturn the march decision by a regional director that made scholarship athletes on the team employ

andrew sullivan, the intellectual father of same sex marriage in 1989 he wrote the first piece advocatingage, he says this is disgusting. he is gay. tammy bruce, our friend tammy bruce who does a radio show. >> right. >> she is also openly gay. she calls this the gay gestapo. they made a big mistake at mow zillow. they want to force somebody out because of his views, liberals are are supposed to be the ones who are open-minded, who are tolerant. they tell us that all the time. but on certain issues, they're intolerant and they're closed-minded. they are as bad as the hard right is that they are always criticizing. that's the irony of this whole thing. >> well, they don't care, number one, and, number two, do i believe that most gay americans think this is horrible. i bet you if you did a poll, 77 a% -- >> -- i think you are right. >> 7 a% would say we don't want that and that's what i think. all right bernie. >> i think you are right and i think you are right and i think that's a good thick. >> i like it when you say i think you are right. you did that like four or five times in this segm

and i think andrew sullivan, who not only is a gay activist but is an intellectual father of gay marriagerote a book proposing it 15 years ago or so when it was considered weird, and he's argued for the normalization of gay life. that's been his cause. he calls it disgusting. he's absolutely right. this is totalitarian. discourse, and it shows a level of intolerance, it should be unacceptable, and people ought to be -- ought to get what they're giving out and feel a counter boycott. >> george, what about the people who argue this was a business decision? and this was mozilla saying we operate in a world where that's just not acceptable? >> the company had said that, you could say they have the morals of the marketplace, but at morals. what they said is people have been hurt by this. now, who was hurt and what was in the nature of the injury? that they learned that someone six years ago made a political contribution expressing thereby a political belief? this is how we get speech codes on campuses. people say we came to cams and we don't want our feelings hurt. we don't want to feel threat

some like andrew sullivan came out and said this is no way to behave. you can't force people out of their jobs. tony, good to see you. >> thanks, megyn. we're joined by judge napolitano. let's jump to the new mexico case that's allowed to stand by the u.s. supreme court. this is from the new mexico supreme court decision and this is why they found against the photographers. this is a quote, okay? they say a holding at the first amendment mandates an exception for commercial photographers would license such photographers to freely discriminate against any protected class. such a holding would undermine all of the protections provided by anti discrimination laws. >> well, the state of new mexico like new york, new jersey and other so-called progressive states has defined public accommodation to mean anybody that provides a good or service to a member of the public. once you do that in new jersey, new mexico and new york, you cannot refuse to do business with someone that comes in, as long as they can pay for your service. no matter what you think of a per

. >> now andrew sullivan, openly gay.gay rights movement today, pounding our opponents more like the religious right than anyone else, then count me out. he wants to no part of this. was in the right move? >> this is beyond horrifying and distressing to hear a clearly scent say what's the big person by being forced pout. i have no problem with this. free markets, you're right, mozilla is free to do it but what a disgusting thing to do because of your personal political views we won't hire you. they say, quote, our organizational culture reflects diversity. they named their protection for religious use. unless we disagree. mozilla supports equalalty for all, except for you. >> michael, thank you for that and jessica, i'm out of time. we'll get to you next time. thank you to both of you. >> thank you. >>> straight ahead, the keys to happiness, some advice on how to get there. ♪ . ♪. ♪ [ male announcer ] how did edward jones become one of the biggest financial services companies in the country? hey. yours? not anymore. come

i find it notable that andrew sullivan, a leading activist in the gay community, has come to mr. ike's defense. mr. sullivan has been quoted as writing, quote, the whole episode disgusts me, as it should anyone interested in a tolerant and diverse society. if this is the gay rights movement today, hounding our opponents with the fanaticism more like the religious right more than anyone else, then count me out. yes, public opinion on gay marriage has shifted since 2008 when both then-presidential candidates barack obama and john mccain supported defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman, but america has never been defined by mob rule. even as -- if 1% of the country supported defining marriage as between a man and a woman, which is hardly the case, that 1% still has the right to hold that view. particularly when it is a view based in many cases on one of the most deeply held faith convictions. i understand that reasonable people can disagree on issues. in fact, robust debate in the public square is in itself an american hallmark, but what happened last week was not d

>>> plus the book making andrew sullivan so upset.at wasn't included and the political risk president obama is taking by reform a broken system. plus why students have the entire world of sports watching. >>> good morning. i'm jonathan capehart in for melissa harris-perry. nerdland, the votes are in.

andrew sullivan over at the dish inserted himself into the discussion. he wrote about his concern for mr. coates that, quote, his depression about the state of america was weakening his usual strengths. sullivan also shared some of his readers' comments, that coates' blog has sadly turned into a place of utter depression and despair. that his anger is clouding his vision. that i pray my friend circles back to hope soon. there is important historicical context here. words like depression and despair remind me that for more than a century, african-americans expressing frustration with the united states have been suspected not of righteous anger, but of mental illness. in 1951, a doctor coined the phrase, drake demania, a condition that caused slaves to try to escape. the cause in most of the cases that induces the negro to run away from service is much more of a disease of the mind and much more curable as a general rule. in the 1960s, there were scientists who suggested that participants in race riots had some kind of brain dysfunction, and they conducted

. >> well, andrew sullivan. . was outraged over the firing. he said that he was scalped by some gay activists. he said if this is the gay rights movement today, pounding our opponents with a fanaticism, then count me out. >> and here's the other piece of this. this was in 2008, right? that was several years ago. and there are a number of liberals who have changed their tune on the very issue. the president being one of them. our very own ed henry pressed the with white house on that issue. >> the president himself in 2008, when this person donated to the cause was also opposed to same-sex marriage. . does the white house think there should be the tolerance on the issue and that there should be other views heard? >> well, i certainly understand why an issue like this has been in the news, but i'm not going to be in a position to weigh in on the decision made by a private company. >> really, as the white house spokesman, will you come down for tolerance? no. and then to tell us we're not going to take the position o