i mean, beyond belief, is in charge of the case and she's totally controlled by andrew weissmann. ever hear the name andrew weissmann? i think you, did in this room you. dead bad person, bad guy. he's an even bigger trump hater. seems like a fair deal so far, do you? agree >> andrew, do you agree? >> so, you know i find that honestly lisa knows what she's and, for maya garland knows what he's in, four and jack, you don't sign up for this if you don't know have very thick skin and you let that roll off your back. people who are subject to targets of a criminal investigation generally don't like prosecutors and have all sorts of things to say that are true and untrue. and you learn to live with that. and still [inaudible] due process of law, that [inaudible] the sum monaco and jack smith are steeped in in terms of their [inaudible] office and who they are. this is just part of the equation here. and i'd like to point out that jack smith has a really thick skin. he's been doing this for a long time. and that is something i'm not worried at all that he is gonna be distracted or become

andrew weissmann, so there is donald trump attacking jack smith, by whom he obviously knows nothing. and of course, also attacking you about whom he knows a least what in what you say on this program, and you are part of the mueller investigation investigating his conduct at the time. what do you make of donald trump's written statement today? >> well, with donald trump, one of the things that you have learned through history and you know is a posture is all of this is never about the actual facts. it is always about invective and activists and media spin. if you are's defense lawyer you are, having palpitations because of some of that media spin that he engages in. so the statement the you read from at the outset of the program completely belies the defense of the documents were planted. since he saying i openly in a tory asleep took them there. to me though, it is still consistent with his latest defense, the defense do juror which seems he seems to be saying i, openly and notoriously took these documents but i believed they were my personal documents. that the mere act of taking t

and andrew weissmann, what is it like for the big question of the night? can donald trump out-run the prosecutors by running for president. let me first say that i am happy that dan is going to be in washington, to handle all of this and to make great arguments and to call out what donald trump is doing. the anterior question, running for office is not a get out of jail free card, this is not a monopoly game. they were active, serious investigations that the state and federal level this morning and for many, many months before that. they existed before, and they will exist after donald trump's announcement today. this is purely a press move to be able to say that the department or the state is doing is political, but that is all it is. it is not going to be anything that affects the decision-making of serious prosecutors in terms of if it is appropriate to charge him and he should be treated like anyone else, he will be. the fact that he decides to run for office is truly irrelevant to the decision making that is made by any serious prosecutor. >> daniel g

andrew weissmann, that final note by the public defender, a just and equitable outcome. what i was hearing and i hope it is what we are hearing, and what we will continue to hear, is a responsible public defender, who is staying within his, so far, limited knowledge of the case. everything he said is completely accurate. e he's not protesting his cliens innocence, not throwing around lies like donald trump, about, this was someone trying to break out of the house. and a just and equitable outcome could eventually involve a guilty plea, could involve, ultimately, and agreement here, between defense and prosecution on this case. it is so striking, to compare what he had to say today, beginning with that decency, about his expression of sympathy for paul pelosi, to what we heard from donald trump, who is out there actually trying to pollute the information, basically, we have on this case. >> the word decency, lawrence, it is hard not to think about the mccarthy hearings and the famous line from joseph welch chastising senator mccarthy -- at long last, have you no sense of

i want to bring andrew weissmann back into the conversation who's still with us. you speak to the congressman's stated anxiety that all this public-facing evidence, it's not even just public-facing evidence, it's been alleged in doj filings the nature of the classified documents at mar-a-lago and the specific ways in which donald trump obstructed that investigation. do you think anything short of an indictment is inexplicable? >> i do. i share the congressman's concern and i wrote about it "the times" today. the issue that whichever way the special counsel goes, the public is going to need to have an explanation for either why it's consistent with doj policy or why they determined in their discretion they could not go forward. personally, i don't think that we're going to be in this situation where there is no charge in the mar-a-lago case. i think that there is two decisions that jack is going to have to make. first, can he make the case? and the second is should he? sometimes you have the evidence and you have to decide whether it's an appropriate use of your di

andrew weissmann, thank you.brilliance on the show. >> still ahead, it's complicated how georgia's new voting laws are messing with the upcoming senate run-off. if you think that this isn't totally intentional, think again. senator jon ossoff joins me next. kevin, where are you?! kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. ♪ ♪ movies are dreams doll... ♪ that you never forget. ♪ ♪ what was your favorite part? this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma

we have charlie sykes and andrew weissmann here.l our viewers what we understand to be happening behind you. the defendants have been brought into the courtroom. they are bringing in the jury momentarily. andrew weissmann, what are your thoughts as we're sort of in these final moments before we learn this verdict? >> well, obviously this is -- there's a reason so many dramas are based on trials and that's -- this is a moment where the prosecutors and defense counsel are on pins and needless in terms of what's happening. in terms of the larger significance, this is the most important case that the department of justice has brought to date. they are to be commended because they really put together a case about the organization, the oath keepers and their leadership. we talked about bringing a seditious conspiracy charge is a rare charge, but if it is going to be brought, this is the kind of case to do it because it has a number of elements that involves the use of violence, in this case in obstructing governmental functions. you can't

search warrant affidavits, you are in pure desperation planned. >> the former federal prosecutors andrew weissmann and andrew goldman, thank you both very much for leading off our discussion tonight. we really appreciate it. thank you. >> coming up, nancy pelosi will be the first to tell you that she did not do it alone. her leadership team has always included our next guest, the honorable james clyburn who has announced that he too will be stepping aside next year for a new generation of leadership to take their places in the house of representatives where james clyde burn will still be representing the sixth district of south carolina. congressman james clyburn joins us next. next. ♪♪ over the last 100 years, lincoln's witnessed a good bit of history. even made some themselves. makes you wonder... what will they do for an encore? ♪♪ covid-19. some people get it, and some people can get it bad. and for those who do get it bad, it may be because they have a high-risk factor. such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increas

former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann is back with us.raskin, and what does it mean to this investigation? >> i have two names that people should remember, david raskin and kendra kingsbury. i bet you that second name is new to you, lawrence. >> i'm writing it down right now. kendra kingsbury? >> yes. you're thinking, why is weisman talking about that? david raskin, when i heard that he was working on this case, i just let a huge sigh of relief. as you know, i have talked publicly and privately about some concerns about the department of justice's team on this matter. not that they are not smart, lovely, public servants. but they are not who you would go to in terms of complicated aggressive investigations. and the trial lawyers, david raskin this all of that. he's like susan of injure, leading the district attorneys casey you mentioned. they have had stellar people who would be your go-to people. it just made me feel like, okay, the department really gets it. they are staffing this appropriately. i think that the combination of david ras

with jack smith there, it does seem to be it speeds up the process, which is what andrew weissmann suggesteday night. today, we didn't have to wait long to find out, where is jack smith on this material? there is the justice department issuing a filing in court, saying he is completely up to speed. he read it all in the documents case. that is minimum 1200 pages of pleadings, who knows what else he has read, or what else the department has given him they haven't been public. he is, right now, tonight, right up to speed with a case that's going to be argued tomorrow. >> it really doesn't surprise me. i've known his work for a long time, i've admired him from a fire. he was in charge of the political corruption unit of the justice department. he has been a career prosecutor, he prosecuted were crimes in kosovo, he was working at the hague, he certainly didn't leave the hague just to preside over a lazy, slow, molasses like investigation. he is there to wrap it up and decide which indictments to bring, in what sequence. there are all kinds of crimes, many that have even not been named publicly,

andrew weissmann, another formal rebel federal prosecutors have delivered their version of such a memowhat they believe are trump violations of six federal statutes. they present the prosecution evidence as they see it, based on documents that have already been made public. they present the best versions of trump defenses, and they say we find that there are chargeable offenses here. in your understanding of the evidence in this case, based on the public filings by the lawyers in the case and by reporting, do you see the evidence necessary for prosecution of donald trump in the documents case? >> all i have access to is what is been publicly reported, but judging by that i would say is likely the charges can be brought against the former president. the fact that former prosecutors put together a -- in the justice department and say that they are in fact trying chargeable offense is in some ways pretty persuasive. i know some of the people who were engaged in that effort, and i have great respect for their legal abilities. i think there's also gonna be a possibility of defending willis,

he is referring to our friend and colleague andrew weissmann. there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that -- who is known for her independence in her sharp acute legal analysis is being controlled by anyone much less by andrew weissmann. that having been said. one of the reasons i was surprised is because of the delay that this could cause and the fact that if the attorney general is satisfied with the performance of this person. you can only remove that person for cause. rising to the level of misconduct. not just negligence or you don't like they're performance or you suspect there -- really has to rise to the level of -- that's why i thought with just a permit would not let this out of its site. at the same time, i fully understand why he did it. there are some additional factors here. that will end to the extraordinary circumstances. that allowed the attorney general to appoint a special counsel. when we suggest they are beyond donald trump. they really have to do with the house -- one thing that's also extraordinary is that there are at

because andrew weissmann, who was on andrew mull mueller's team has been enthusiastic about the appointment of jack smith. he said smith should let the public know something about his work. at the end of this, earlier today. >> it's not necessary to be absolutely silent. if you do that you leave the field to donald trump and his allies to really spin the way in which the special counsel is viewed. it's gonna be really important here, if there is a charge, for the public to understand what it is that the special counsel is doing and why there is a charge. >> tally, do you agree? >> i agree with andrew wholeheartedly. i think what he said was profound. it goes beyond this particular prosecutor, the special master. we have seen so much in the past few years, stephanie, just information filling the spaces that are left behind when prosecutors don't explain what they are doing and there are guardrails and they are important, you can't have prosecutors besmirch the reputation of people who run the investigation. you can't have them reveal confidential information or investigative steps, but that

. >> andrew weissmann and a few other people i've spoken to about this case and patel's testimony before said that patel's presence there indicates to them that they are building a case against the ex president. that there is no real reason to talk to him or certainly not go to these lengths unless you are trying to basically knock down alternative defense there is of the case as you move towards some kind of indictment. and i wonder if that looks like that you as well? >> i think that is absolutely right. you don't give someone like patel immunity just for fun. you have to have something in mind. the only target upstream that really matters is donald trump. if you are donald trump seeing kash patel being immunized by the federal government, you should be very, very concerned. >> okay. i want to move to a different jjurisdiction with a different legal problem for the ex president. you can do a whole show every night on them. there was a civil lawsuit, a very serious one against the trump organization by laetitia james who is the ag in new york. the trump org responded by creating an alte

. >> mueller prosecutor andrew weissmann wrote an op-ed saying -- te an op-ed saying - >> by all accounts it looks like special counsel jack smith is moving full speed ahead. are there any major obstacles on the immediate event horizon for him? >> i don't think there are a lot of obstacles. the 11th circuit cleared out what would have been an obstacle in judge cannon. that ruling obvious hi hamstrung the doj's investigation, forced them to spend a lot of time responding to her arguments to the special counsel, and now -- excuse me, the special master. and now that's cleared up with the court of appeals. i think he has some clear runway ahead. jack smith has some advantages that special counsel mueller never had. he had to deal with obstruction during the course of the investigation. trump was trying to fire him on multiple occasions. he had a certain general who was hostile to him at certain points trying to hide the results of his investigation. i think now really jack smith has a clear runway, we should, i think, give him the opportunity to do what he's there to do, which is frankly to

joining us now, andrew weissmann, longtime justice department veteran, formerly prosecutor in robert. mr. weissmann, thank you for being here. >> great to be here. >> i'm glad you intersected with bradley hart on your way. >> i am too. >> i feel i have been making like a proxy style investigation in your line of work. in terms of the justice department contending with national security threats of this kind, people who seek to undo our system of government, people who are in powerful political positions when they seek to do it, and i feel like the version of the pitfalls i've seen in historical investigations of that kind happened in the mueller investigation as well, essentially a political appointee of that president interfering to submarine your work and make sure it disappeared from the public view. do you think that's fair? >> i think the analogy is, i mean, palpable, because you have people from outside the nation seeking to interfere, and you had people inside the notion doing the same thing in the white house, and actually at the justice department. that is something jack smit

let's bring in former general counsel at the fbi, andrew weissmann, former u.s.ade, both msnbc legal analysts. also with us, nbc news national affairs analyst, executive editor of the recount, and cohost of show time's the circus, john heilemann, and senior political analyst of the washington examiner, david dominican republicer. -- drucker. what is the significance of it, attorney general garland saying with donald trump in the race and him being appointed by joe biden, he needs to remove himself from the prosecutions, what does it all mean? >> the decision by merrick garland is something the doj regulations call for. it wasn't required but within his discretion, he could decide that the day-to-day operations of this investigation are going to be handled by a special counsel. it is important to remember that the special counsel is a part of the department of justice. and ultimately the attorney general can decide that an indictment should not be brought. if that happens, that has to be reported to congress. but it's not like the attorney general gives up total c