andy stern and libertarian charles murray both outline their different proposals at this event held athe cato institute recently. it is about one hour. >> all right, i want to take an opportunity to welcome you all to the cato institute's hayek auditorium. my name is michael tanner, a senior fellow here at cato, and i generally work on issues that have to do with poverty and inequality and other areas of domestic economic policy. today, we've got a rare occurrence here at cato, a double book form if you will. we do a lot of book forums, but rarely do we have two such distinguished authors dealing with books both released on the same topic at roughly the same time, so it's serendipity that we get you both here today. we're talking about the universal basic income. which is the idea that rather than the current multiplicity of social welfare programs that we currently have, that that somehow be supplemented or replaced with cash transfers that are not tied to specific requirements, that are simply, people get a check from the government rather than the traditional set of well, we have he

andy stern who is one of the employees union got a book out, arguing for universal basic income. i think it's a long way to go. i think it's extremely expensive for one. if you have a range of other programs might be able to do it in some reasonable budgetary fashion, but i also just think work is an essential part of what makes us tick as human beings. i think it's the way we advance a society. if i were to spend my money i'd rather spend it on something like wage insurance where talking to people in the market who are working in continuing to acquire new skills and advance their careers but they can't they don't have enough money to make ends meet. expanding tax credit i think that was it the best program created in the last two decades where you're working but you get rebates from the government for working. i would rather see us expand programs like that thing go for universal basic income across the board. i'm still wrestling with it. i'm open to persuasion. >> so your preference is for programs that are related to work as opposed to -- as opposed everybody gets 10,000 dolla

andy stern who is part of the trade task force has a book out arguing for universal basic income. i think it's the wrong way to go. i think it's extremely expensive for one. if you cut a whole range of other programs you might be able to do it in some reasonable budgetary fashion. i also think our work is essential part of what makes us kick as human beings. i think it's the way we advance as a society. if i were to spend my money they're trying to advance their careers i think that was one of the best programs created bad rebates i'm still wrestling with it. >> so basically your preferences for programs that are related to work as opposed to working. >> is a post everybody getting thousand dollars years even if they can't find work they have a 70% again. >> i read your book on amazon. >> i have two questions. the first question is, how much of a difference to the economy belmar services and that's changing. how much difference difference in a generally manufacturing good base trade deal and forcing those rules actually do help. the second question and he talked about this in the

andy stern who is part of the, the former service employee jin, part of the trade task in 2011 1 got a book out arguing for universal basic income. i think it's a long way to go. i think it's extremely expensive for one. if you cut a whole range of other programs you might be able to do it in some reasonable budgetary fashion, but i also just think, i think work is an essential part of what makes us tick as human beings. i think it's what we advance at society. if i were going to spend my money, i would rather spend on something like wage insurance were you are, people in the market, working, acquiring skills, trying to advance their careers but the gist can make enough money to make ends meet. expansion of the earned income tax credit was one of the best programs created in the last two decades where you're working that you in fact get rebate from the government for working. i would rather see us expand -- extend programs like that. as i sense of wrestling with that. i'm open to persuasion. >> so basically your preference is for programs that are related to work as opposed, instead