anne applebaum, what are the chances — off that.away? i don't think under the i current master leadership that would happen, i don't think under the biden administration or any of the leadership that we have across europe, that is likely. there are forces in almost every single western country that we like you hand the water russia, would like to hand the water russia, would like to hand russia victory, add one of thoseis hand russia victory, add one of those is donald trump —— had the war to russia. if you want to become the president of the united states in 18 months it would be a different situation, one of the reasons why some in washington would like the war to reach some kind of conclusion before the election. xtour war to reach some kind of conclusion before the election. your assessment of very might — before the election. your assessment of very might see _ before the election. your assessment of very might see an _ before the election. your assessment of very might see an end _ before the election. your assessment of very

take a 30,000 foot view of the atlantic magazine's editor and chief, jeffrey goldberg, he and anne applebaumedition's cover story entitled the case for the total liberation of ukraine. you write that a victory for ukraine can be easily defined. it would mean sovereignty, safety, justice but getting there not so easy to define. you spoke with zelenskyy at length twice. where does his optimism about a victory, about a path to this proposal, where does it come from? >> his optimism comes in part from the serial under estimation of the entire world about ukraine's capabilities. i mean, you know, we talk about bakhmut, russia bogged down in this tiny town relatively small town for months and months and months. if you recall, think back 14, 15 months ago, we thought ukraine was going to be wiped out, wiped off the map in a matter of days, and you know, we were in kyiv -- i was in kyiv last year. i was there this year. the charge is remarkable, even though it's under periodic rocket attack, you know, there is no existential threat to most of the country anymore. and what i mean by all of that is th

well, joining us is pulitzer—prize winning historian anne applebaum and a senior fellow atjohns hopkinsced president zelensky�*s address. tell us how it is a about. it was tell us how it is a about. it was the idea of the president of the university. he asked me a couple of months ago if i knew how to contact president zelensky, he knew i had just been there interviewing him. i made the initial contact but i won't hide the fact that over the past few days, there was a lot of extra effort put into make sure it really happened. president zelensky was in japan. he obviously has many other obligations. but we were really pleased he found a few minutes to join graduation ceremony. these kinds of events in the united states make a really big difference in how people here who listen to him, you know, speaking to students notjust you know, speaking to students not just as a you know, speaking to students notjust as a war leader, not just as the president, but as somebody who can offer them advice on how to think about their own lives in the future, and it was very successful. speaking of the fu

anne applebaum, one of my favorite writers on all things international. great to have you on set. we'll be right back. it's amazing! hydrates better than the expensive stuff i don't live here, so i'm taking this and whatever's in the back. it's already sold in the us. but i'm not taking any chances. the uk's #1 skincare has crossed the pond. (wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day helps keep my asthma symptoms under control. and with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy helps improve lung function so i can breathe easier for a full 24 hours. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid, like in trelegy, there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may

anne applebaum, one of my favorite writers on all things international. great to have you on set.e tonight. we'll be right back. be right back. ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we're always working theon a project.ent. while loading up our suv, one extra push and... crack! so, we scheduled at safelite.com. we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive. we can keep working! ♪ synth music ♪ >> woman: safelite came to us. >> tech: hi, i'm kendrick. >> woman: replaced our windshield, and installed new wipers to protect our new glass. that's service on our time. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ - psst! susan! with paycom, employees do their own payroll. - what's paycom? a magic payroll genie? - it's a payroll app. - payroll is way too complicated for the average person. - paycom guides them through it. missing or duplicate punches, pending expenses, unapproved pto, on and on. - why would employees wanna do all that? - this could be a stretch, but i think it's 'cause they wanna get paid correctly. i lik

anne applebaum and jeffrey goldberg, thank you, both, so much. ory in the new issue of "the atlantic." greatly appreciate it. david ignatius, final thought on what you've heard from anne and jeffrey? >> well, i do think these next few months are going to be decisive. if the ukrainians can demonstrate an ability to put russian forces at risk, to move far enough south that they're able to shell the bridge, for example, that links russia to crimea, put crimea very much in danger, i think that does change the balance of the war. may make russians rethink. one thing we haven't talked about, and i close with this, is the always-present danger of russian escalation. they don't -- they have a vote here. they can bring more weaponry, more savage weapons, ultimately up to tactical nuclear weapons, to save their position. i think that's the thing that worries people in the white house most as they think about this. what is the inflection point, the break point where the russians would go to a different level of warfare to save their position? >> that's alway

. >> so we had jeffrey goldberg on earlier this week, and ann applebaum from the atlantic, how russiathis war was unwinnable. you say because of putin's isolation during covid that's just not going to happen? >> again, it could happen. there's a lot of uncertainty in this, and i think putin still, unfortunately, the calamity here is he's in charge of russia and he's in charge of the war. he's calling the shots. now, we could, you know, have all of a sudden a breaking news that somehow he's gone or they're pulling out, or -- but putin doesn't want to give up. he thinks he has the leverage here, just like we've been talking about the chinese, the chinese play the long game. putin would like to play the long game, but things could spin out of control instantly. >> bakhmut, that horrible, you know, tragedy that was happening there, there's a lot of criticism here. i heard a lot of criticism from u.s. officials about the ukrainians' decision to stay and fight in bakhmut, and people were saying they really should pull back, you know, this is very expensive. it looks like the ukrainians were