annie lowrey. >> basically you're saying it was good for them to manipulate it to borrow at a certain changing conditions that would result in the libor being lower, which is what they were try dog to shore up everything with the banking sector. it seems like you're missing an integral piece. >> you're the bank of england. there's no one you're going to appeal to. >> you don't need to. >> you call them and tell them. >> let me -- let me play mervyn king, who is the bank of england governor. >> who's been saying smart things about this. >> addressing this. >> that goes to both the question of culture in the banking industry and to the structure of the banking industry. from excessive levels of compensation to shoddy treatment of customers to a deceitful manipulation of one of the most important interest rated and now this morning, the news of yet another misselling scandal. we can see we need a real change in the culture of the industry. >> this to me is the actual key point. you're making an argument of what the actual macroeconomic effects of it were. even if they were not real, i wa