anthony weiner is warning him if you go too far their direction you're going to lose us. in reconciliation in the senate i don't see anything good coming out of that. there are so many ways to prevent elements of health care reform passing in reconciliation, requiring 60 votes to include those provisions, and what you would get would be a very ugly looking sausage. >> lawrence o'donnell, msnbc and the huffington post, great thanks as always. >>> tell the truth about this debate in a more main stream media venue and you get looked at like you're from out of space. our pal rachel found out yesterday on "meet the press" just before she used her ray gun to vaporize dick armey. arianna huffington follows up on rachel's point that mr. armey and the reformers are still trying to undo medicare. then there is the bigger picture if nate silver is right and there are really only 41 firm senate votes for the public option and if anthony weiner is right and there are a hundred democratic votes to lose if there isn't a public option there is a train wreck ahead for this president and h

. >> congressman anthony weiner yesterday, need for public option. with us now republican representative from tennessee, congresswoman marsha blackburn. she is a member of the energy and commerce committee currently overseeing the 1,000-page health care bill. congresswoman, thank for being with us. you suggest the best thing to do with this bill is put it through a shredder. what would you replace it with? >> i would come back and replace it with some of the good options that are out there. we have the shattuck bill, ryan bill. there are plenty of ways we can address the insurance market reforms. joe, as you know, previously the house has passed many of those in '06, bipartisan support, send

isn't that the language of -- >>> and when rachel joins you, anthony weiner, his response to steny hoyer going soft on the public option. reading about washington these days... i gotta ask, what's in it for me? i'm not looking for a bailout, just a good paying job. that's why i like this clean energy idea. now that works for our whole family. for the kids, a better environment. for my wife, who commutes, no more gettin' jerked around on gas prices... and for me, well, it wouldn't be so bad if this breadwinner brought home a little more bread. repower america. i hope our senators are listening. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a tbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. >>> donald rumsfeld tries to rebutt tom ridge with defending himself with quotes from bin laden. and someone fires death panel fabricat

anthony weiner has become the country's most forceful add advocate of the public option if not singlecare will be joining us this hour in a couple of moments. we also have john stuart's brick by brick dismantling of betsy mccaughey. there's lots to come. we're beginning with breaking news. nbc news learned that as early as monday the obama administration plans to release what we have been calling the big kahuna. the report on the bush administration's torture program made while the program was still going on in 2002. this is the report that supposedly stopped the torture . this is the report that supposedly stopped the torture program in its tracks when the report circulated inside the administration. the cia inspector general's report has been described as sickening by some who have seen it. the only version of it that's been publicly released so far looks like this -- was released last year and almost completely redacted. in her book "the dark side," jane mayer say, you couldn't read the documents without wondering why someone didn't say, "stop." >> on monday, we'll get a chance to

joining us now is anthony weiner of new york. he sits on the house energy and commerce committee. he pledged to vote no on any legislation that does not include the public option. he is an outspoken supporter of single payer health care. congressman weiner, thank you for coming in. >> thanks for having me. >> you're very good at math. if there are zero republican votes for health care reform, what is the best democrats can do in terms of policy? what can be done without republicans? >> one thing we have to stop doing is negotiating against ourselves. i mean every time i turn on the television find another democrat or even sometimes the president backing away from the basic principles that are going to make health reform work. and we have to stop. that i mean it's pretty clear, and you had this group of members of the house and senate, none of whom are in touch with the mothership, you know, you have these guy who's basically are the problem. there is not a single republican vote that i've seen for the thing. so i think that what we should be doing is trying to figure out what we a

congressman anthony weiner said today that president obama would lose 100 votes in the house without the public option. do you agree? >> yeah. it's going to be hard for me to vote for a bill that doesn't have the public health care plan option in it for two reasons. one is that while universal coverage of everyone is a necessity for americans, health care reform is a necessity for america and its economy. right now we have 47 million americans who are a market for the private insurance companies. in pennsylvania, two companies have 60% of all private health care plan options. without reform of a fair competitor, that's a choice that's not subsidized by the government, only copays and premiums who elect to join it. i want it because it's good for the economy. i want accessibility universal because it's good for americans, and right now, we need leadership, particularly in the senate. >> at the same time, according to the latest poll, quinnipiac, at least, has arlen specter ahead of you by 30 points among democrats, yet, at the same time, you did very well with the netroots poll, the l

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. >> reporter: new york congressman, anthony weiner said, not including the public option, could cost votes in the house, which could mean defeat for health care reform. >> some of us who got roughed up in town hall meetings and stuck in there, now feel we have a tire track on our chest where the bus that rolled over us is. >> reporter: viviana hurtado, abc news, washington. >>> while the president was pushing health care reform in phoenix, about a dozen people showed up outside the convention center, openly flaunting their firearms. no crimes were fitted and nobody was arrested. gun advocates say they are exercising their rights to protest and bear arms. while those favoring gun control says these displays are a growing disturbing threat to president obama. the number of threats against presidents obama are similar to those faced by presidents bush and clinton. >>> although it has taken a while to appear, the atlantic's first hurricane is up and running. bill has grown into a category 2 storm, packing winds of up to 100 miles per hour. while bill is well out at sea, it is gning stren

congressman,n, anthony weiner said,, not including the public opti, coulcost v votesn thehe house, whihichch could mean def >> some e of us w who got roughp in town h hall meingsnd stutuck inin therere, now feel we havev tire track on our chest where the bus ththat rolled over us i. >> reporter: viviananaurtado, abc news, washshington >>> while the prpresidenwas pushing healthth c ce rereform phoeninix, abobout a dozozen pe owed up outside the convention center, openly flaunting the fifiarms. no crimes were fitted a and ny was arrested. gun advocates say thehey a are exercising their rights to while those f favavoring g gunul says these displays are a growg distuturbing thre to president obama. presididentsts obama are simili ose faced by presidents bush and clinton. >>> alalthought has taken a while appear, the atlantic's firsrst hurricane is up and runnining. bill has grown into a category 2 ststorm, packing windsdsf up to 100 mileles per hour. while ll is well out at sea, it iss gaining strength.. and is on track to blow by bermuda by the end of the week. >>> the fbi says it wl launcnch a

here to talk about is anthony weiner, somebody who supports the public option.t's vital, in fact, to actually reforming health care. what is your sense right now? we had mixed messages over the last couple of days in the white house, where they stand, whether or not the public option needs to be in any final bill. >> i don't know. that's part of the problem over the weekend. it seems like the secretary of hhs is saying it's not that important. i saw the president saying it's not that important. but, you know, look, this is vital for a substantive reason and political reason. the reason is if you don't have the public option, that's why you're leaving the private insurance companies to help reduce costs. they're not going to do that. we know that. for the longest time, we're not going far enough. i think we should do much more to make sure insurance companies are held under wraps. without the public plan, we're not going to hold down costs. if we're not going to hold down costs, i don't know what we're doing here. who is the president negotiating against? i don't

new york congressman anthony weiner.ank you. >> when we talk about the outrage in the town hall meetings, what have you seen yourself? >> well, there's a lot of misinformation out there, a lot of people who have been riled up. i think the focus of the attack has been seniors. if you get seniors agitated enough about health care, members of congress will run for the hills. but, frankly, much of the stuff isn't true and i think seniors also understand something, they have commerce with a single payor national health care plan that's government-run, government-administered they like. medicare, this weird dichotomy, medicare has been a pretty successful program, it's got some financial problems but as far as consumers are concerned, they like it. so medicare's been used as the boogie man, we're ge going to cut your medicare is what opponents are saying. president obama hasn't done a great job up till now putting their minds at ease. that's part of the problem. >> you talk about misinformation but a lot of questions come as t

democratic congressman anthony weiner of new york, thanks again for your time tonight and make sure somebody gets you safely out of traffic there. okay? >> thank you. >> thanks. >>> we've had news today that the extremist group that allegedly gave information about dr. george tiller's whereabouts to the man who eventually killed dr. tiller identified the new doctor they consider to be public enemy number one now that dr. tiller has been killed. that man, the new public enemy number one joins us next to respond. stay with us for that. >>> first, one more thing about health reform. today's "rachel maddow show" award of excellence goes to bob cesta of "the washington post." health reform legislation will be named for senator ted kennedy, it must follow the principles that senate kennedy fought for during his life. it must cover everyone, be affordable and deliver quality care to all americans. if that seems too much to remember, tuck away in your mind the excellent headline today. "held care reform named after ted kennedy must not suck." everyone's talking about them. and now we can actually do

our conversation with anthony weiner. anthony, i cracked the code.ernment to takeover all of health care? >> when you say takeover, only as much as government took over health care for seniors. >> you want to expand that for all of american? >> yes, medicare for all americans. no profits being taken. it goes back to patients and health providers. >> this is your position -- not barack obama's, yes, and -- let me finish. this is not an attack. the people showing up saying the federal government wants to takeover all of health care, those people are scared of your position. and the second point is president obama would not want your position to be seen as the democratic position, right? >> the president's position of a public option is better than nothing, but the fact of the matter is, if you think that medicare is no good, and maybe you will not take it when you reach 65 -- >> anthony, let me assure you, i will not make it to 65, brother. >> and yeah, when you have elbows in your ribs every morning -- >> i spit up blood by 10:00. it's awful. >> can i

anthony weiner of new york out in front on that today saying if there isn't a public option it will not pass the house. i can get a hundred democrats to vote against it if it doesn't have a public option. is dropping the public option a disgusting enough political surrender that it might actually sort of wake up the liberal base here? >> i think actually it might be. you know, when nancy pelosi was asked the question when she was asked if it was possible that the progressives might end up not voting for the bill if the public option was watered down she laughed out loud about a month ago but in speaking to members of congress both in the house and the senate, i think this is kind of a line in the sand issue for them. i think there are lots of people who are seriously considering not voting for this thing and if there is no public option, i think you probably will see that revolt among the progressives in both houses. >> i was surprised to learn today, and it was a posting today is the reason i know it. i was surprised to learn max bachus had been explicitly on record in his health care

new yo congressman anthony weiner. >> if the president think we're gonna get thvotes thout public option he's go another thing coming. that won't pass the house. >> reporr: for months the presidentas insisted that a public option was a nessary rt of fixing the country's health care system. this is what he told the american medic association in june. and one of the options needs to be a public opon that will give people a broader rangof oices and inject competition into the health ca market so >> reporterbut the president d his aides have also stoppe short of making the publ ption a deal-breaker. is is what mr. obama said aa weekend stop in grand nction, colorado. >> this is legitimate debate to have. all i'm sayings, though, that the public option, wheer we have it or we don't have , is not the entiry of health care refm. ths is just one sliver oit. >> repoer: those comments, and similar ones made by heal and human services seetary kathleen sebeliuon sunday have sparked firestorm amongst liberal democrats. rep. jee jackson jr. of illiis was asked yesterday at a town hall meeting if he cl

. >> the problem is, let's say the anthony weiner, is bill that he would love to see i don't think could get more than 30 votes, 37, 40 votes in the senate. that isn't what they'ring go to do. they may play another game here which is call the bluff of the republicans. do you really want to fill bust ter this whole thing? almost force them to do the fill buster. >> like in the old days like in the movies. >> well, not necessarily that way where you draw it out, but force them to be the ones to stop it. then see you know, and then see if you can go the reconciliation route or go another way. find another corner. look, the two games being played is i think the white house is going to assess do, they jam it through, do the reconciliation, could be a political cost to some, could really hurt them with some conservative democrats or some independents or do they go and call the bluff of all the republicans an see if they stick together. they might not stick together on this. >> let's try the joan walsh theory. she was on the other day. in fact, i think she did this on another program. pretend y

last night democrat anthony weiner of new york introduced an amendment that would abolish medicare. you know, evil, socialized medicine. >> this amendment is simple. it gives my republican friends the chance they've been waiting for, to vote against government sponsored, government run, government administered health care. it's your dream amendment. this is put up or shut up time. if you don't like national health care, if you don't like government run health care, this is your amendment. >> when it came time to put up or shut up, not a single republican voted to abolish medicare. in fact, one gom congressman called weiner's amendment a farce. one of the democrats playing a lead role in the health care fight, senator chris dodd of connecticut announced he has early stage prostate cancer detected during his annual physical. senator dodd said the diagnosis has made him even more committed to health care for all. >> as a member of congress, i have a very good health care plan. my health care plan allows me to get paid an annual physical. because i have an annual physical, i was able to

democratic congressmen anthony weiner of new york puts that number even higher, saying perhaps 100 house democrats would be willing to vote against the bill that does not include public option. democrats drawing a line in the sand against conservatives in their own party. democrats playing hardball from the progressive side. pinch me. i'm dreaming. joining us now is jane hampshire, founder and publisher of firedog lake. she and other activists spearheaded a effort to get democrats to vote no on any health care reform that doesn't have public option. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me, rachel. >> how many democrats have pledged to make their health care vote contingent on the public option? >> publicly now, i think we're at about 65. we started our effort in june, june 23rd. after it became clear that rahm emanuel and max baucus were trying to deal a public plan away to the ama, hospitals, pharma, in exchange for keeping the money out of republican coffers in 2010. so we said, look, we've got progressive members of the house who were elected by, you know, 20, 30 points, who

on cnn's "american morning" this is what congressman anthony weiner had to say, if you would all listen the political question that i'm curious about is who is the president negotiating against? i don't see my republican friends in congress saying if you make this tweak or change we'll come aboard and help with you bipartisan health care reform. that's not happening. they're basically saying no to everything so we might as well get the best possible bill since they're going to be in opposition anyway. >> what do you think of the congressman's analysis, ron? >> i think it's inaccurate. there are a number of republicans in both the house and the senate that have worked very constructively in a bipartisan manner, not just to talk about how to reform health care but introduce legislation and say this is an american problem and it's our elected responsibility as members of the house and senate to come one a solution, let's put our bills in, have the debate and have the discussion but instead what you found is that speaker pelosi and the majority leader, steny hoyer cut off the debate for the

queens, new york, our affiliate news crew was at first barred from the town hall that congressman anthony weiner. >> we're told by your people that you don't want cameras. >> take it down. take a deep breath. take a deep breath. this seasonal for channel 2. this is for my constituents. >> reporter: weiner finally let the camera in. and the now familiar scene played out. >> let's look at the whole picture. you are stealing from us! >> across tv land, meanwhile, a visceral conservative talking point now on everybody's list. check out today's buzz word. >> questions about the so-called death panels are being raised at health care town hall as cross the country. >> some of the critics call death panels. >> the quote unquote death panels. >> what is being called death panels. >> death panels. >> death panels. >> death panels. >> death panels. >> death panels. >> death panels. >> you have a death panel, a desire to kill granny. >> possibly pulling the plug on graned ma? >> pull the plug on grandma. >> pull the plug on grandma. >> the death panel talk continues. >> ugh! >> we'll fact check the death pa

. >> anthony weiner said the president could lose 100 democratic votes in the house over this. >> some of us who have gotten roughed up pretty good at town hall meetings now kind of feel like we have a tire track on our chest where the bus that rolled over us is. >> reporter: one compromise is for the creation of nonprofit insurance co-ops that individuals could buy into. they would be run by those individual members, not government and would compete with traditional private insurance. house democrats say co-ops are just not strong enough to compete with private insurance companies and thus force costs down. the white house says president obama still thinks the public option is the best way to bring down insurance company costs but they have not drawn any lines in the sand. jake tapper, abc news, the white house. >> stocks are set to open lower after falling sharply yesterday. the dow industrials dropped like a ton of bricks at the opening and closed down 186 points. that is the largest one-day drop since early july. investors are worried that money.ers aren't spending enough back-to-s

this is -- in letting anthony weiner go out there and very cogently make his case on that side of the argument, must be driving the white house crazy. but they've got so many fingers in the dike at this point trying to hold on to what they think they have that they're not working this side yet. they have got to work this side. this side is the side that actually prevented the house from voting at all in 1994. no bill ever came to a vote in the house of representatives because they said we want to see what the senate can do. we don't believe the senate can pass something. so the senate went first. the senate bill failed after about four or five days on the senate floor, and the house never took it up. and so i would not be surprised if we see the same sequence this time where the house says, we do not want to extend ourselves and vote on something . if the senate can't do it, let's see what the senate does first. that didn't work in '94. let's see what happens now. >> our frint gene robinson had a great quote in "the washington post," sure, giving up on the public option might be exbee

are you with anthony weiner, who was just telling us, you don't need 60. just jam it through with 51 or 50? >> i think there's -- the danger there is it gets so pockmarked and they can take out things that don't directly relate to budget. but i -- i think -- i think if he can't get to 60, he will go with the 51. they'll get something and they will call it a victory and republicans will say it's a failure and then they'll go home and sulk. >> because he ran it through with 51 votes. >> even insurance reform is significant. >> if they ram it through with 51 votes and try to do that, he will split his party in half, tear the party, sink the blue dogs and he may not even get it. >> i think he needs 60 and 218. thank you, pat buchanan and eleanor clift on this sad night for friends of bob novak. >>> join us tomorrow night for more "hardball." "countdown" with keith olbermann starts right now. >>> which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? political gamesmanship or the majority getting played like a $3 banjo? >> the president, his position, the a

representative anthony weiner out of new york has come forward to say if you try to strip it out and there is no public option you could lose up to 100 votes in the house. could that one turning point kill the entire measure on the house at least? >> you have three legs. the house, the senate and the white house. the house is going to insist on a public option. the senate is going to have its own priorities and the white house is going to have its own priorities. we we get to a final bill there will be a public option. people need to understand. there will be a range of choices. maybe a hundred different private sector insurance policies you can choose from in the exchange but one public policy available like a public university. you can go to the community college, you can go to a state university like penn state or if you have got the grades and the money you can go to a private university. this is what a public option will, it will be an opportunity, a choice available to the american public. >> shannon: if the government is setting the rules, with the public option have an unfair

. >> mike, let me ask you really quickly, we have to go to break, this reminds me anthony weiner was on yesterday and tuned me, actually all of us, saying we don't need insurance companies anymore for health care, the government should take them over. nancy called them evil, villain, maybe said immoral. have the democrats declared all out war on insurance companies now? >> absolutely. the number one talking point house speaker nancy pelosi sent people out. as you guys know, the president has stopped calling it health care reform and now calls it health insurance reform. >> okay. >> mike allen, thanks so much. we'll be checking out the rest of the news on "politico."com. >> we never bring you down. >> no. you raised the bar. >> up with people, nipsey, up with people. what's next. >> still ahead, we'll take a closer look at the new nbc health care polls with director chuck todd and still ahead, world focus on pbs, martin savidge. a look at the morning papers. back with more "morning joe." ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts

. >> congressman anthony weiner yesterday, need for public option. marsha blackburn. she is a member of the energy and commerce committee currently overseeing the 1,000-page health care bill. congresswoman, thank for being with us. you suggest the best thing to do with this bill is put it through a shredder. what would you replace it with? >> i would come back and replace it with some of the good options that are out there. we have the shattuck bill, ryan bill. there are plenty of ways we can address the insurance market reforms. joe, as you know, previously the house has passed many of those in '06, bipartisan support, send it to the senate. senate didn't get zap we are at a point we need to punch the reset button and declare a do-over and take out a clean sheet of paper and go to. >> it would you support a plan that would not allow insurance companies to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions? >> yes. i think that -- this is one of the things that we have in the shattuck proposal which is one of the alternatives that i do support. it is linked o

anthony weiner, a congressman from new york, said if there is no government option the president will lose 100 votes in the u.s. house. meanwhile, senator inspector is not about to write off -- senator spector, is not about to write it off. listen to this. >> because there are some people who are discouraged about it. the coop might have the same elements where there is an operation which is not for profit. but let's write the bill, let's consider it and let's try to do something positive. gretchen: the interesting thing here is they probably have the votes in the house to pass the health care reform bill with the government-run program intact. but they may not have the votes, the democrats in the senate because a lot of the blue dogs have said, hey, we are not going to pass this, we are not going to put our nation further into debt for the remainder of our children and grandchildren to try to figure out. so the interesting thing about health and human services secretary kathleen cebellius was, was that for conservatives who don't want the government-run program or for the liberals? i

we've had plenty of people on the program this week, starting monday with congressman anthony weinerblic plan. would you vote for something that included something like cooperatives instead? >> not instead. you know, let me make clear here that the reason for the public option, and it is to address one of the most difficult parts of the insurance market. and the most difficult parts of how we can -- one of the answers to how we can actually help americans, particularly individuals and small businesses who have the hardest time buying private insurance at an affordable rate. if we leave it completely to the insurance sector to say, wait a minute, you've not been able to take care of this population at all, we're going to leave it to you, even with some new rules, we need to make sure that if we're going to say, all americans ought to have health insurance and they should, and they should all participate, we need to have a public option that is there for people to be able to buy affordable, meaningful conch. and secondly, we do expect that we can drive the costs down for all of us by m

congressman anthony weiner democrat talking with senior citizens on healthcare at a half empty communityenter in queens. they say it came of little notice and was free of the angry protests. that is new york city. here is the front page of the "detroit free press." healthcare forum turns raucous. advocate john dingell tries to defend reform proposal. was greeted with jeers and cheers as he tried to explain why change in the healthcare system has he has advocated more than a half century makes sense. there is a photo of a dan thompson of canton, michigan, yelling during the town hall. next call for max pappas of freedomworks, north little rock, arkansas. nancy on the democratic line. caller: the only thing that i have to say is it has already been well public iized that the republicans have sent out memos directing their people on how to disrupt the town hall meetings. now, i have one thing to say about that. you can yell, you can scream, you can encourage your people to go and you can sit there with that silly little smirk on your face, sir, and i'm going to say one thing to you. until y

congressman anthony weiner democrat talking with senior citizens on healthcare at a half empty communityenter in queens. they say it came of little notice and was free of the angry protests. that is new york city. here is the front page of the "detroit free press." healthcare forum turns raucous. advocate john dingell tries to defend reform proposal. was greeted with jeers and cheers as he tried to explain why change in the healthcare system has he has advocated more than a half century makes sense. there is a photo of a dan thompson of canton, michigan, yelling during the town hall. next call for max pappas of freedomworks, north little rock, arkansas. nancy on the democratic line. caller: the only thing that i have to say is it has already been well public iized that the republicans have sent out memos directing their people on how to disrupt the town hall meetings. now, i have one thing to say about that. you can yell, you can scream, you can encourage your people to go and you can sit there with that silly little smirk on your face, sir, and i'm going to say one thing to you. until y