more on the ukranian perspective, on the as a style plant evacuation i spoke with dr. anton chicago itself, director of the center for democratic integrity and the senior fellow at the free russia foundation which supports democratic development in the country. and started by asking if this was a victory for russia. well, 1st of all, thank you for having me. and so i must say no, this is not a big story for the, for, for the russian federation. because the, the defenders, all the off star plans have totally fulfilled the order of the high command of ukraine. they have drawn, overwhelming forces of the russian federation. and they defended my the will, i think even for a longer period than anyone could, could, could have thought that they would, that they would be able to, to defend the city for such a long time. so it's not a big story. now they have been taken by russian soldiers to russian controlled territory. how likely is it that a prisoner exchange will happen and that the evacuees will be brought back to you? cranium territory, you see ukraine has around a 1000 of the russian prison

he w correspondent, max and they're imposing that from liveth and we are joined now by dr. anton chicago, self director of the sense of the democratic integrity and a senior fellow at a free russia foundation. he joins us from vienna. welcome to d. w. doctor shack of south is the evacuation of ukrainian soldiers from the as a style or plant, a victory for russia. well, 1st of all, thank you for having me. and i must say, no, this is not the victory for the, for, for the russian federation. because the, the defenders of the off style plant have totally fulfilled the order of the high command of ukraine. they have drawn, overwhelming forces of the russian federation. and they defended, mighty, i think, even for a longer period than anyone could, could, could have thought that they would, that they would be able to, to defend the surgical such a long time. so it's not a victory. now they have been taken by russian soldiers to russian controlled territory. how likely is it that the prisoner exchange will happen and that the vacuum will be brought back? so you, cranium territory, you see ukra