and anya kamenetz, author of the books "generation debt" and "d-i-y u". >> anya, i will start with you, give us some context for this political fight am we say that student loan debt exceeded credit-card debt. how big a problem then are we talking about today? >> well, you mentioned the average figure, $27,000 a year for the-- for the class of 2011. this has been growing every single year right in lock step with tuition. and it's something where families and students facing the tough job market that they are are really starting to question the value of their degree when it comes with these large loan payments. >> brown: sandy baum wa, would you at to that, and who's most affected. >> well, anya's right to focus on the amount that individual students owe, not on whether thing a. q. gatt amount of debt is greater than credit-card debt. >> brown: why is that. >> because what matter is whether individual students can manage their loan payments. and the fact that is most college graduates, $27,000 is fine. what we need to worry about is that there are many students, too many student was bor