macron at the arc de triomphe this morning. am looking at the money market screen on the bloomberg, negative interest rates on the 10-year and the france. how do the people of a nation work with negative interest rates? jonathan: with great difficulty, and i remember a conversation we unicredit aember of couple weeks back and is stuck with me. will we be able to engineer a recovery in the euro zone that leads to higher interest rates? we failed last time. in his response was we will likely fail this time. i am paraphrasing. my words, not his. but that is what he alluded to. the story is in europe, even when we get through this mess, trend growth will be so low that the ecb will not be able to go up in interest rates, anywhere near where they were 10, 15 years ago. tom: yesterday talking with mr. kaplan, it was not about the weekend after thanksgiving, but it was about him talking about two quarters in america and then improvement. is that tone the same in europe? i do not think so. jonathan: with lockdowns and the u.k., france,