areva, it's good to have you with us. it's the situation where there are so many different topics and it's easy for them all to get jumbled together. let's parse them out, let's break them out. the first topic, the fatal police-involved shooting of two african-american men in minnesota and louisiana, sparked the protests that we saw. and there was a great deal of concern just the other day, and i know you raised this question, hey, let's not link this guy doing these terrible deranged things to the protesters with who have the reason to protest. >> you're right, george. i was actually on cnn, on the "cnn tonight" with don lemon, as the dallas shooting was unfolding. and we were talking about the baton rouge and the minneapolis shooting of the african-american men by police officers, and as the information was coming in about the dallas situation there was this inclination i think for there to be a link between the shooting and the peaceful protest. and i just kept cautioning everyone during the sxanl others did as well no

i allowed you -- >> please, areva. professor, let her finish. >> yes.he issue is, where those officers in imminent danger, did they have the -- the need -- was there an opportunity to deescalate that situation, and what we see time and time again is when you have officer encounters with african-american men. there's never an effort -- and i don't want to overgeneralize. but generally, you don't see efforts to deescalate the situations. you see the situations go from zero to a hundred. and a level of force used that's not used when they're not african-american men involved. so for you to suggest that alton sterling's criminal record somehow justified those cops shooting him when he was unarmed, pinned to the ground, is just a ridiculous statement. and it really highlights the issue of race and how african-american men are treated differently by law enforcement in this country. >> professor swain, do you believe that the climate of racial tension in the united states today mirrors where we were in the 1960s? >> i think that conditions in america have wors

. >> standby, areva. we want to get to ktvt with live reporting. >> at the very least, they want to talk to them. >> i got to go. dallas police department tweeting now, and i'm going to read the tweet to you. it says with heavy hearts, we're devastated to report that a fourth officer has been killed tonight. those words are coming from the dallas police department. so four officers are now -- >> that was our -- >> and again, we don't know if it means if it is one of their officers or not because the chief had in his summation earlier included one dart officer who had died earlier so i hesitate to tell you in any way whether this is a dart or a dpd officer. there is not a lot of clarity on this but the tweet is coming from the dallas police department. again, telling us that a fourth officer has died tonight. so let's go back to, here we are at one of the hospital scenes and it has been a massive police presence there. obviously family and close friends have been arriving through the night in a very, very

areva, talk to me about the culture of fear. that is indeed one of the truest things said this evening. >> yeah, i think we can't over-emphasize this, don. we started the show a couple of hours ago talking about the police shootings in baton rouge and minnesota. and we were going to talk about the courageous woman, the fiancee of mr. castile, who did that facebook live video. and now, here we are three hours later looking at facebook video. looking at video that was taken by citizens and how the video was used to show us the violent exchange with the police officer and that woman, the fiancee and her little girl in the back seat. and now to look at the violence on the video that we have been watching for the last hour of this police officer being shot. and the shootout between the police officer and the suspect. this violence is not something that is abstract. not something that is removed from us. it's something that we all witness on a daily basis through these types of videos. and it's chilling, having a traumatic impact on u

. >> it is a horrible injustice, areva, as well, because as the president said, this is an american problem, it's not just an african-american problem. but many parents, white parents don't have to worry at least about that. parents have to worry about a lot of things for their kids but this is something that is foreign to white parents in this country. >> yeah, done. and i think what was so moving about the president's speech is he was almost admonishing the country to have empathy and unfortunately when i look at my social media feed, i've been talking about this now for 24, going on 48 hours and there are people on my feed who still were saying things like, "but you just need to comply with the police," "but if you you just did this," "if the victim just did that." people still want to point to the victims rather than look at the responsibility and place it where it should be, which is on these police officers who see african-american men as suspects and not citizens, who see these men as villains rather than super hero, they see them for people to be feared rather than men to be respect

. >> areva martin joining us live in los angeles. pretty late there in the night in l.a.e appreciate you taking time to be with us. >> important topic. >> speaking on the black lives matter movement. >> i'm sorry, you were saying? >> i was saying this is such an important topic, and i've been with it all week. and just grateful to have an opportunity to weigh in on this. and hopefully, be a part of what's going to be some positive movement in a direction that brings our community and our police department together for meaningful dialogue that will end the kind of violence that we saw this week. >> sorry for clipping you there. that skype audio is a little tricky for me on this end. good to have you with its on cnn. >>> talk about the black lives matter movement they're condemning the violence here in dallas. they're also calling for an end to police violence. details on that, next. the fastest delivery guy in chicago. meet maximum strength mylanta®. like owen, it works fast. unlike him, it makes heartburn go away. strong and soothing. new mylanta®. faster than heartburn.

joining me now areva martin. she is joining us here in studio. we appreciate you taking the time.action to this. were you surprised that the judge granted this motion, where they were saying, placing the blame on the defense attorney. >> these motions are filed all the time. defendants tend to blame the lawyers. first, you have to prove there was something deficient about the defense that was presented by your attorney. and then, you have to prove that but for that deficient defense, the outcome would have been timpbt. and that's a really high burden of proof on the part of the defendant. i was surprised by the judge's ruling in this case. >> this podcast broke records. it was downloaded and streamed millions of times. >> public opinion is not supposed to play a role. but you think it did. >> judges are supposed to make rulings based on the facts and the law. they're human, too. this was a difficult case. i think what the investigative reporter did was raise some questions about the guilt of sayed. she talked about the fact there was no you witness to the murder. no physical evide