. >> and a little while ago, you mentioned arissa, before we got on the air here. that is the number one reason for the death of defined benefit plans. not 401(k)s. and i'm not defending 401(k)s. they're far from perfect they were never intended to be what they are, okay. but arissa, which was intended to save the pension -- >> what do you mean, they were never intended to become what they have become, which is $15 trillion worth of assets it's like amazon was never intended to become what it became in a way, right what do you mean >> it was a fluke politically. you know, the legislation here wasn't because some member of congress said why don't we set up this great retirement plan to help people save for retirement. it was enacted for what were known as cash deferred employer funded profit sharing plans. that was the reason for it that legislation was passed in the fall of 1978 had a delayed effective date of january 1980 january '80 came, no one was running around the country setting up 401(k)s we didn't have financial advisers selling these because no one antici