. >> your obviously familiar with enron the firm that used to be called arthur andersen. is that something you would say most cpas or accounting firms are familiar with that situation? >> yes. >> would you happen -- say what happened to arthur andersen was no longer exist because of the enron scandal is that something that in general disciplines the accounting profession? >> absolutely. and reflection upon this offense it has been in terms of my profession that was a considerable change following that activity. >> can you talk a little bit about tax avoidance versus tax evasion? >> sure. i think the earlier panel described that accurately and correctly that tax evasion is illegal and tax avoidance is appropriate in terms of managing the overall costs associated with your business. as long as it's done within the rules and regulations as provided by the tax authorities. >> so in light of obviously what happened with arthur andersen and enron scandal you are preparing these types of documents and now they are being a congressional senate hearing here. with these concern you

. >> your obviously familiar with enron the firm that used to be called arthur andersen. is that something you would say most cpas or accounting firms are familiar with that situation? >> yes. >> would you happen -- say what happened to arthur andersen was no longer exist because of the enron scandal is that something that in general disciplines the accounting profession? >> absolutely. and reflection upon this offense it has been in terms of my profession that was a considerable change following that activity. >> can you talk a little bit about tax avoidance versus tax evasion? >> sure. i think the earlier panel described that accurately and correctly that tax evasion is illegal and tax avoidance is appropriate in terms of managing the overall costs associated with your business. as long as it's done within the rules and regulations as provided by the tax authorities. >> so in light of obviously what happened with arthur andersen and enron scandal you are preparing these types of documents and now they are being a congressional senate hearing here. with these concern you

. >> in my view after arthur andersen, the pendulum has swung a bit too far and need to swing back a bit. and so you can expect that before too long, a significant financial institution will be charged with a felony or be made to plead guilty to a felony where the conduct warrants it. >> part of his rationale, the gloomy prognostication, executives resigning in shame simply don't come true. in fact, he's been monitoring companies that warn of dire consequences and finding in many cases they prove to be baseless fears. >> what i have found tipic willy is that in reality as we had suspected, the sky does not fall. fk in, sometimes the sky brightens. stock prices remain steady or go upened a the company is viewed as putting problem bees hind it. clintsz and customers and key employees don't bat an eye and sometimes the ceo even gets a raise. and so this repeated chicken little routine, i will tell you, sometimes begins to wear thin. >> now, of course, that reference about sometimes a ceo gets a raise, felt to many, myself included, a reference to jpmorgan, given dimond a raise in 2013 d

adelphia ,enron, arthur andersen -- all of these companies were swept up by the bush justice departmentis interesting about this, you can see a progression. if you go back to the savings and loan crisis in the late 1980's, which was an enormous fraud problem but paled in comparison to the subprime mortgage crisis. we put about 800 people in jail in the aftermath of that crisis. fast forward 10 or 15 years to the scandals like enron and tyco, we went after the heads of some of those companies. it was not as vigorous as the snl, but at least we did it. at least george bush recognized the symbolic importance of showing americans that justice is blind. fast forward again to the next big crisis, and how many people have weak put in jail -- have we actually put in jail? zero. and this is a crisis that was .uch future in scope it wiped out 40% of the world's wealth and nobody would to jail. we are now in a place where we don't even recognize the importance of keeping up appearances when it comes to making things look evil -- equal. >> in the story with patrick. saxophonist named patrick ocean

that was inconceivable to me because the department was simultaneously prosecuting arthur andersen atron for destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice. i wasn't sure what to do but i knew i couldn't be a part of this. i called tech support and i was able to resurrect more than a dozen of the e-mails including the ones that documented the fbi committing an ethics violation in its interrogation of john walker lindh and i gave them to my boss and said i don't know what's going on here. i'm not going to be a part of this and i resigned. i thought that was the end of this ordeal for me at the criminal prosecution continued and there was a suppression hearing coming up. the key to john walker lindh's case was the validity of the confession he gave during the interrogation i advised against and i heard the justice department continued to say that they never thought he had a lawyer. which said to me that the justice department didn't turn over the e-mails. i didn't think they would have the temerity to make a statement like that, that he never had a lawyer if my e-mails had reached t