arthur anderson went out of business.it was the civil collateral consequences that are so threatening to companies. in the last year eric holder says there is no such thing as too big to jail. a couple of days pled guilty because they worked out with regulators that they there would not be that collateral consequence of the conviction. some suggestions that they should do something to fix up that area, but plenty of cases the criminal punishment might involve a hefty chunk of change. >> of $5 million bribe for telecom business. any derivative lawsuits from the competitors who lost the business and the prophets? and tyco industries. industries. not that i want to be an apologist. for the shareholders, $600 million returned 2.4. they just sued. compare that to enron. rampant, intentional, thousands and thousands of dollars to a for crippled people. a cfo for that company went to jail for ten years. >> in some of these cases there are things about changes over time in sentencing and the complexity and sometimes inexplicable

i went to hope college and went to work for arthur anderson, and felt the call, went to seminary. was going to teach systematic theology and a lot is ethics, fits in there fill officially. that was my goal. and while i was in seminary, i went to princeton seminary and came down here to wesleyan seminary and there was a guy writing ethics in one book, it's not a punch line. i got very interested in that. a lot of seminarian students were interested in justice. that term justice is a tricky one. it's a got a long pedigree but shaped more recently to end up in the leftist tradition or leftist moral description lately. and i think it has a longer pedigree, so i'm very interested in exploring that. i've taught it over the last 19 years. so, i pursued those themes in seminary and then went on from wesley, butts right up to american university so i said i want to pursue these further through ph.d. and-n economics. you can get the city around, can you go to interesting talks by world class people across the board every night. and so pursued that through my ph.d.. i was lucky enough to app