. >> brown: there's also the constant mix of the art and the industry, the business. >> yes. all of the directors in this book, you mentioned several, arthur penn, alan bakula, it's always this struggle between art and commerce. it's kind of a shotgun marriage of money and art. and altman talks about it that it's hard for him to tuk a studio person to explain a film because he won't understand it until he's seen it. >> brown: people here, i want to say they like talking about their craft. i'm not sure because you can't quite tell from wlrx they wanted to sit down, but they certainly come off as interested in what they're doing or wanting to convey, especially to these younger people, how the craft works. >> and sidney poitier called me and he had read his interview the other morning from los angeles, and he said it so excited me to read in words my theories about what i do. >> brown: another one was steven spielberg, he's talking about, a, thinking that he was going to spend his life making, working in television, and also the story with jaws and about how difficult it was to make. >> he was a young director, he had made sugarlab express a