. >> two things i was thinking about asser having this discussion s my gosh, what would george h.w. bush be saying about this. now, looking down on this and saying this is not the way our country should be operating and people need to just know they're telling the truth, not interfere with any process from a special counsel, an investigator, whatever it is and let the chips fall where they may, and then the other on cohen, i'm thinking how lucky i was to work in the administrations that i did and never be faced with something like this. it's really, really sad. >> but it is extraordinary. look, you go back to iran-contra, then president bush was in the middle of a lot of controversy as well, issuing a pardon to cap weinberger before he ultimately faced trial. these are -- these can be really controversial issues. the difference here is that you have a president of the united states when there is an ongoing investigation coming up to that line of suggesting, well, if you don't talk, you know, you've got guts and i will stand with you. and here is michael cohen probably doing -- of co