atchison always asked him not to do that but with no success. there was this one passage in truman's diary where he talks of meeting an american diplomate, i think, who served in egypt or something. he said, the guy, my language, not his, he said, the guy talked in this accent that suggested maybe he was actually born in england and went to oxford and war these strange clothes, jewelry and so forth, which suggested that this was a great ar ris toe krat. president truman asked this american diplomate, where did you grow up? the guy said topeka, kansas. >> i do think one of the things that has to be talked about, specially with this audience, is that harry truman really did believe in public service. >> yes. >> and in a variety of ways, the people that he did respect were those that were involved in public service. that's why i think the truman foundation, the whole aspect and the truman scholars are a perfect way to honor the president who believed, who had all the qualities we talked about terms of humility, common sense, street smarts, but who

one historical example i you doctor to, dean atchison and harry truman. atchison famously said he thought he and truman worked well together because neither in our time in office forgot who the president was. kennedy: you say the state department, is toxic and overwrought and gone rogue. how much time will the secretary of state actually cleaning up the state department itself while you have all the global challenges and crises that face you the moment you're sworn in. >> to be effective you have to do both simultaneously. kennedy: not many people can do that let's be honest. >> based on my experience you need a cultural revolution. no the a fix that will occur in six months or four years. this has been building up over decades. i think from the perspective of the basic american interests you have to make the state department more effective advocacy unit for america's interests. failure to do that will continue to cost us down the road. sandra: can we talk about rex tillerson for a second? critics say he has no foreign policy experience how could he be co

. >> and so we made mistakes in past history, i said this the other night, deen atchison drew the line for north asia and didn't include korea. next thing you know, we're in war with north korea. same thing with april glassby with iraq back in the first gulf war. she said that's a border issue to saddam hussein, we're not really involved. all of a sudden we're fighting a war we didn't think we had to because we didn't tell people. i want a president smart enough to tell the people, you know what, vladimir putin, we're going to have to fight for lithuania. if nato gets attacked, we've got a problem and it may mean war. don't go grabbing some of these baltic states. this is a problem, presidents have to be clear to our rivals what not to do, what trip wires exist or else we get into trouble. >> i think part of the problem -- >> and people die. >> two things there, one, trump doesn't know what those trip wires are because he is not familiar with geopolitics. and he is relying on his generals to do that. and that's, i think, the second point here. is that part of the reason he surrounded h

remember atchison gave the wrong message to the north koreans in the 1950s.e the wrong message and wars start. we've seen that, ambassador. how do we avoid a war? stupidity and ignorance do start wars and failure to lay down the line ahead of time, what will you do if they do it, is usually what gets us into trouble. your thoughts? >> well, of course, we'll have to engage. we'll have to avoid that through diplomacy. and i do want to underscore if you run exxonmobil, you have a lot of experience with diplomacy, with people around the world. that's important to say, first and foremost. but the problem is, just looking through the lens of diplomacy, through energy or even business, that's what troubles me. we have other things we have to think about. his closest business partner in russia today is eager setchen. he's on the sanctions list and i think he's on the sanctions list for good reason. because russia annexed crimea and intervened in ukraine. so we have to -- that is part of the policy, too, in my view, and that's why you have to, in my view, have a large

i love the dean atchison quote. i think that needs to be a mission statement think tank mission as well. i know during the campaign native is not often crop up as a top issue for discussion. we talk about the hot spots in the world, but not necessarily alliances. and i have to say it was with great shock, i was sitting at my desk and my phone rang and it was a reporter. and the question was, so how would the united states withdraw from nato. and i beg your pardon. i got out the washington treaty and i looked at it and i went well, it was never -- i thought we would ever have. so president elect trump introduced us a conversation about nato. it would not be the one i would choose, but i'm going to take the opportunity. i think in some ways, we have, for a long time, been confusing price with value. and that's what, i think, mike, what you were talking about and the burden sharing. it's always about how much have you paid. what's your fair share. you're a free rider. it comes down to the price. and for far too long we

i love the dean atchison quote. i think that needs to be a mission statement think tank mission as well. i know during the campaign native is not often crop up as a top issue for discussion. we talk about the hot spots in the world, but not necessarily alliances. and i have to say it was with great shock, i was sitting at my desk and my phone rang and it was a reporter. and the question was, so how would the united states withdraw from nato. and i beg your pardon. i got out the washington treaty and i looked at it and i went well, it was never -- i thought we would ever have. so president elect trump introduced us a conversation about nato. it would not be the one i would choose, but i'm going to take the opportunity. i think in some ways, we have, for a long time, been confusing price with value. and that's what, i think, mike, what you were talking about and the burden sharing. it's always about how much have you paid. what's your fair share. you're a free rider. it comes down to the price. and for far too long we

anybody confirm or deny the actions of an assistant secretary of state named dean ache which -- atchison in respet to -- the policy of roosevelt and hall concerning the fuel embargo that congress passioned toward japan? that's my question. >> host: you were nodding your head. >> guest: he acted in concert behind the back of fdr. fr wanted to do an imare embargo he held the reins of and wanted to jerk them tilt. and while fdr was in the conference off the coast of knew found'd, these two guys, one in straight and one in treasury, used their abilities to shut down the japanese purchase and they exerted a full embargo after petroleum to japan. so you're correct about that. >> host: steve twomey, what had u.s.-japanese relations been like leading up to 1941? knee the relationship had been pretty good through most of the years of -- when both were emerging world powers. and in fact when franklin roost on december 6th wrote his famous letter to the emperor, seeking to find a way around this problem, i believe he referred to the long-standing relationship between the two countries, but it was c