they have atf agents. in 1972, i went on in the 70s there was 2500 agents and there was still 2500 agents. 39 years later -- >> jon: not the same ones, right? [ laughter ] policing over 100,000 gun dealers in this country with a couple thousand agents who are also responsible for tobacco and alcohol may seem impossible but here is the good news. 18 years ago a professor analyzed atf tracing data and found 57% of guns used in crimes, the illegal guns could be traced back to 1% of the licensed gun dealers. all the atf has to do is create a registry of these transactions. trace them back to the bad dealers and those dealers ruining it for the law abiding gun dealer and citizens, flooding cities with illegal guns -- make it stop. >> according to the "new york times" the bureau is prohibiting from creating a federal registry of of gun transactions. >> jon: what the (bleep) are you doing? why? that makes no sense. [ laughter ] was it getting too easy to police illegal guns? what if we do it with our arms like th

host: we are:the atf.aller: these jokers, if they'd just did 10 inspections burma, they could, statistically, 5 times the inspections of these dealers. host: is that something the atf can do with their current manpower? talk about their budget and manpower. guest: one of the complaints they have is that their budget has been sort of static. you have -- they have not grown very much in recent years. host: debates the the big increases a lot of other agencies sought after 9/11? guest: we have seen some since the 9/11 attacks. since 2008 have gone 4200 employees to just over 5000 agents. so they have gotten an increase. a $500 million budget authority to about $1.10 billion. so they have gotten an increase. they have not grown to the extent the fbi has grown as far as the budget. but it is an agency that deals for the market is required to do, especially in times like this, after a national tragedy of a big mass shooting, you see a lot of pressure. host: what was their role in newtown? guest: they were there

so at atf agents and state and local partners coming in now, a strong atf is something waianae, but we also can't forget a strong state and local partner. police budgets have been cut and the format of the system is tipped, it doesn't help anyone. you have to have this whole law-enforcement team has got to be strong. atf agents find creative ways to work around this. try and make their trafficking cases, using a variety of both overt and covert methods. takes time, takes resources. in the end come in the case may or may not be made. sometimes even when a case is made, the next job we have to do is get prosecuted and then we start up another hill. getting a prosecuted depends on a number of variables. if the case does get prosecuted and the offender from the tape, that a sentencing. msn or convicted for a crime like we've been talking about all day, falsifying a form, dealing without a license, i doubt that even today, when a person is charged with those types of crimes, that the tragic consequences we saw we chandra's gun, if you were chandra being sent and, the guidelines would not re

very important to create strong and effective atf. atf is underfunded.without stable leadership, often whipsawed by special interest. atf definitely needs budget expanded, it's been stagnant for the last 10 years your own increasing marginally, not even with the basis of inflation. needs to be shielded from politics, and clearly they need stable leadership it i would recommend going beyond making an out of session appointment but it would be nice if something like what the fbi did and had a director position that was appointed for fixed 10 year terms would be above the political fray. also critically important for jurisdictions to have access to crime gun information. you want to publish as they did before national crime gun tracing report with city level analyses of crime. it was very important have academic involvement in those, the production of those reports, some of the special analyses. and i can't say that enough. the magic between having actual investigators with detailed knowledge about criminal enterprises operate collaborating with academics,

the atf is a government agency, but it does not have a director. it has not had a confirmed full-time director for the entire time president obama has been president. and even before that. why don't we have one? we do not have a director of that agency because out of its federal agents are jackbooted thugs days the nra has vigilantly kept that agency neutered and unable to fully do its job. the conspiracy-driven corner of the gun world's paranoia about federal agents has for years driven the nra to demonize that agency, to weaken that agency, and to keep it from doing its job. and members of congress have gone along with them on that. it was republican congressman james sensenbrenner from wisconsin who with the renewal of the patriot act in 1996 snuck in the nra's language establishing that the head of the atf would henceforth be subject to senate confirmation, which it never had been before. since that happened, by design we have never had anybody running the atf. we've never had a permanent head of the agency. because the nra doesn't want anybody

>> no, i don't think the nra is running atf.have a say in who will run it, and quite frankly, having acting people rotate through every year or every two years, no one's running it. we're fortunate that career people, the civil service employees of atf, are the stable force in that agency. they've been able to keep the lid on things and trying to keep people on mission, but, again, they need a leader. they need somebody's who's connected to the administration who can stand out front and deal with the issues so they can go out and fight violent crime. >> and i know many people are saying what happened about in the atf, it's a messedup organization, maybe it doesn't need to be run by the government. >> well, again, "fast and furious" obviously people made mistakes, but quite frankly i think a lot of them were honest mistakes. people were trying to stop the flow of guns into mexico. they had tried a number of different tactics. quite frankly they were criticized for every tactic they used. i'm not defending what they did, but i can

atf needs to change. a primary of destruction industry change at atf is that going to nominate and confirm a permanent director. persistence to change is common. during my final months of atf i witnessed the leadership qualities of b. todd jones, and those resisting necessary chan change. he displayed a passion for atf mission and a determination to overcome obstacle. most importantly, as a former marine, he inspired followersh followership. in closing i want to say that even after 25 years on the street, i find it shocking that 33 americans are killed every day with a gun. and already over 1000 gun murders have been committed since newtown last month. my kids deserve better than th this. all of our kids deserve better than this. thank you. >> thank you. mr. deputy attorney general. >> good afternoon, chairman thompson, and members of the task force. thank you for your work on this important issue and the opportunity to appear before you today. i would like to focus my testimony on unique program that exi

it was about one local idaho gun seller's dispute with the atf.en silver himself said the nra didn't derail him. >> i didn't get any sense at all that the industry was opposed to my nomination. nor even the nra. >> when president obama took office, the senate just sat on his first nominee, andrew traver, even conservatives like house republican darrell issa called for action. >> andrew traver, who i believe is the 2010, november 2010 dezinate, should in fact be given an up or down vote. should in fact be given an opportunity to be confirmed. >> but republicans and the nra could spell trouble for todd jones. already senator chuck grassley is raising questions about his ties to the fast and furious scandal. the nra hasn't weighed in on jones yet, but nra president david keen does believe the atf deserves a permanent leader. >> should there be a bureau? >> of course. >> and a drether? >> of course. >> the issue has been about getting the right person in the job permanently. in the meantime, current nominee todd jones continues to serve as acting dire

and we visited the atf and saw -- >> jennifer: the atf is the bureau of tobacco alcohol and firearmsbut nobody has been approved to be the leader. >> absolutely by putting somebody in charge and making sure that people know where the guns are who is tracking them and if you go to a gun shop and have a background track and you fail that the atf is following up to make sure that law enforcement knows that you failed. >> jennifer: it's all logical to you and i but this is as we know a big battleground for the nra. they have been one of the endties that have caused the problems at the atf. can the president restore some of the atf authority? or are there other executive order actions that he can take without having to go through congress. >> he has to try to go through congress first. very important. he says congress must act and if congress will not act, then these are the recommendations. let's take them to the people and as the president said i want to do something on gun violence prevennes and i want the public to be with me. >> jennifer: it is interesting what you just said. you hav

the atf and the fbi are responding to assist. let's bring in pete williams, he's standing by to join us on this. pete, texas has a concealed handgun law. we know at least the atf and fbi are responding to assist. would you be able to give me insight in to what they would do there on the scene? >> they would be in response to local law enforcement, the local police would be in charge here. this is fairly standard. i'm told they're not there yet but on the way. here's the best information from a couple of officials who are monitoring what's going on there in texas. it's -- there's either three or four people shot. the information is frankly contradictory here. it's difficult to say exactly. some of the reports i have heard are just like the one you just had which is three people were shot and one person may have suffered a heart attack. in any event, looks like four people potential victims here. one person is in custody. appears to be a student at the school and some indication that this may be gang related. that's an early bit of

atf agents are also on the scene. it's unclear why we are waiting on callbacks from the police department and we will bring you the very latest as it becomes available. now as you travel in the area be aware baltimore national pike is shut down between stanford road and cooks lane. you will want to use cook lawns or forest park as alternate routes. it's unclear when it will reopen. this is the northwest corner of the beltway at old court road and outer loop starting to dam and it will take 5 extra minutes from 795 to 70. the average speeds at 33 miles per hour. in parkville, a different story. no problems traveling from harford road up to providence and for those traveling in glen arm watch out for a crash on the road. that's your abc2 time saving traffic. >>> during the campaign, president obama said whoa pick a immigration reform a top priority. today he will make a introductory -- introductory argument. it comes a day after lawmakers presented their plan to on a manage to membership. it's a long road ahead and lawm

>> yes. >> you believe that there should be a director of the atf?roblem is getting the right person there permanently. in the meantime, todd jones serves a as the current atf director and the attorney general for minnesota. his office did not respond to cnn for comment. erin? >> well, it is amazing, joe, that we go this long with these new laws that we have to make sure that what happens is working. >>> and a catholic church says that life begins at bertirth, a now a court is forced to decide. >>> and also a report says that the president does skeet shooting all of the time. really? >>> and iran launches the first manned spaceship, and well, aren't they people, too? if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye care experts at bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect y

atf needs to change. a primary attraction is the failure to nominate a permanent director of during my final months at atf, i've realized the leadership and a reluctance to change. more importantly, as a former rain, he inspired followership. in closing, even after 25 years on the street, i find it shocking that 33 americans are killed every day with a gun and already over a thousand gun murders have been committed since newtown last month. my kids deserve better than this. all of our kids deserve better than this. thank you. >> mr. deputy attorney general. >> good afternoon members of the task force. thank you for your work on this important issue and the opportunity before you today. i would like to focus my testimony on a unique program that exists in the apartment in california that is responsible for regulating firearms within the street. it is called the armed prohibited persons program and it is intended to disarm people who are prohibited from owning or possessing firearms under both federal and c

so he would be sending out texas rangers to arrest fbi agents or atf agents or anyone who tried to enforce such a federal law. this of course, could never happen. and is patently unconstitutional. and again, the best thing that can be said about steve toth is that he is introducing the idiotic bill to get media attention, which we have just granted him. and the worst thing that can be said about steve toth is he is introducing the idiotic bill, because he doesn't know it is an

atf -3& agents nnpennsylavania alerted poliie here.. gave a -3 car. patrol offiicrs 3 after a brief chase..arrested & the men. - 33 (comm. batts) "two of our plcohol tobacco and fireerms guns off theessreet. if we hadn't done his good work, these ggns, no oubt in my &pmind, woulddhaveeresultee in taking young lves on the streets of baltimore." 3 we're told ddctors are treating the uspeets at ssock trauma tonighttfor injuries &pthat police say are not life-threateningg live at - cciy pollce headquarrtrs, keith daniels, foxx45 news att 3 a judge has found annn arundel coonty executive john llopold pisconduut innofffce. -3 leopoll was charged ith using his sscurity detaal for personal aad pollttcal 3 ppwer by forcing a counny employee o emptyyhis urine & from a catheter rainagg bag. pere's what oneeformer county employee had toosay about the guilty verdictt. 3 at this hour we arr still waiting for word on the sentencing for leopold. 3 3 in just 5 ays... ray lewis hopes to lead the avens to a super bowl victory.../ &p and this will erve as a reminder that

this is a test done by the atf. under the right circumstance, a gas can explode when pouring it over an open flai. up to two years ago no one knew or thought a gas can could act like a fire breathing dragon of sorts. where the opening can violently spew up to 13 feet of fire, making it an unintended but deadly weapon. this happened right here am baltimore county. the teenager and her family recovered from burns. we were invited to bitness how this could happen at the atf laboratory last month. >> we documented it using high speed cameras. we look at it from an engineering basis to understand what's happening. we had to do the test ourselves to see if this could actually happen. >> reporter: later this month we'll break down how to could happen, introduce you to the family and how to prevent it from happening in your backyard. >>> in our backyard baltimore saw a record low of deaths in 2012. 12 people died in fires. officials said that's the fewest deaths recorded. still it did not reach the department's ultimate gel

with that, we have officers that work with the atf to bring the gun cases. and we do all ballistic testing with all of the weapons that we recover and we enter them into a national data base called the international ballistic network or nibin and that is the information data base established by the atf and also now recently with the gun buy back, that is all part of the piece of the prevention piece. with the youth engagement, pal has been around for 50 or 60 years now, and all of us were in the pal at one time and as the police officers and the volunteers coaching kids and working with kids. we want to engage the youth at a critical time in their lives between the ages of 12 and 18, where they are vulnerable and we want to make sure that they build the relationships and the bridges at the police department and get to know the officers on a personal level and see the officers being just regular people like they can talk to and work with. we do that, through the wilderness program and we take the kids camping and the program will take the kids out fishing and

it's all right with you that he did atf.th you it becomes something you disagree with and you hide behind it's unconstitutional? >> here's the difference. the most important person in the land is that of private citizs . when we have guaranteed liberties and freedoms, when the president believes he can infringe upon those rights and opportunities, that's unconstitutional. >> tell me the executive order u again, i'm asking for the second time, that vie lates that privacy. he doesn't in those 23. >> why are you writing him of acting like a king and a dictator. you said you defie that you're going to do it. but what i'm asking you, point-blank, to give me an example, you say he didn't do it. so what is the letter about? >> on the web sielte, he talks about what he plans for legislation. >> so you're not talking about executive action. you mean if he proposes legislation that is voted by the congress, you're going to defie -- >> in that case. >> the very laws that the congress may vote on? >> not at all. that's what i'm encourag

atf agents are is on the scene.t's unclear why but we are waiting on call backs and we will bring you the latest developments as they become available. but baltimore national pike is going to be shut down from stanford to cooks lane. you want to use cooks laid edmonton as an alternate. we will bring you the latest developments as they come into the newsroom. as we take a look at 6 -- actually 83 north of the beltway, notice traffic is moving along. you won't have any delays heading downtown. it will take 11 minutes traveling southbound from the beltway all the way to east fayette street. and 695 traffic is just starting to pick up on the west side of the beltway. but you are looking at a pretty good driven time from 795 to 95. that takes you 8 minutes and the east side nice and clear of delays. looking at an 11 minute ride from 95 up to 83. that's a look at your morning commute. now over to you. >>> we have important health news for parents. person academy of pediatrics is relosing a vaccine schedule and there are a

the atf's workload is about to become even heavier because president obama has proposed that all gunsl law enforcement agencies be traced. that would add about 100,000 gun traces each year. chip reid, cbs news at atf headquarter in washington. >>> coming up after your local news a special edition of "cbs this morning." charlie, norah, and gayle are live from new orleans with a super bowl preview. we'll hear from saints' quarterback drew brees plus nominee chuck hagel and we'll get reaction from bob woodward. that's the "cbs morning news" for this thursday. thanks for watching. i'm anne-marie green. have a great day. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> your realtime captioner: linda marie macdonald >>> good morning, everyone. it is thursday, it's the last day of january. good to have you with us, i'm frank mallicoat here in the bay area. >> and i'm michelle griego live in new orleans counting down to super bowl xlvii. >> michelle, last time we chatted with you, it was raining to beat the band. and i talked to some friends in the big easy last night and i understand it's the big fr

that the church is the congregation themselves. >> reporter: fire investigators and the atf will be back out here tomorrow morning to continue their investigation. they still don't have a cause for this fire just yet. but they are leaning closer to the possibility of ruling out that this was a crime. it is looking like this is most likely accidental but again, that investigation will continue. looking at more than $100,000 in damage to this church. coming up on "news4 at 6:00," we are going to show you pictures of just how amazing that fire was this morning. when firefighters arrived showing lou the roof of this church. reporting live in oxon hill, tracee wilkins, news4. >> we are starting off the new year on a gray and chilly note out there. >> never cleared out all day. meteorologist doug kammerer is here with a look at your first partly cloudy on this first day of the year. >> happy new year. i think we are going to stay with those clouds through the rest of the night and part of the day tomorrow. difference is going to be those temperatures. out there right now sitting at 44 degrees,

. >> there is a fairly long campaign out to degrade the agencies, ranging from the atf to the centers disease control, which used to do research on gun violence and now are not allowed to, that are sort of involved in enforcing the gun laws. is the breakdown of the bureaucracy a meaningful contributor to the problem, or just big governments and it won't matter all that much. >> i think the degradation of the atf matters. and particularly if the new proposals are put in, you need the atf to go after the enforcement of them. the research, of course, is a much longer fuse issue. and i think that is more good government issue. it is just absurd to have ignorant congressmen deciding the research that should be done. right? that ought to be left to research agencies. i am not particularly a fan of some of the research engines that the government funded. but that is an argument that ought to be made in congress. scientists ought to be driven by scientists and not by politicians. >> thank you for increasing my vocabulary there at the end. >> thank you. >>> coming up, you have heard about the

that's routine when are a fire involves a house of worship. >> atf is automatically called in to help us investigate a potential crime or the possible cause of this fire which could be very accident. >> reporter: this fire will mean a new beginning for this church family. it may not be easy. the good news is with no injuries and no one inside when the fire happened, they will all be starting over together. >> i was reminded by members of the church community when i was speaking with them that this is nothing more than bricks and mortar and wood, that the church is the congregation themselves. >> reporter: crews are working to shore up this church this evening. the atf and prince george's county fire investigators will be back at the church tomorrow to continue their investigation. they want to completely rule out the possibility of there bag crime here. at this point they believe that this may have been accidental but this investigation is continuing. fire investigators say that this fire caused more than $100,000 in damage. tracee wilkins, news4. >>> a developing story related to the

they have not had an atf director.not a juvenile justice director, either. >> how are we beginning to have a conversation about this if we don't have those positions filled? >> the gun lobby went out of their way to collect data by the cdc and others. it's an important conversation we can have to get more data and research to find out how gun laws work. there are certain laws that would work tomorrow to keep guns off the streets. right now, 40% of all gun sales in our country don't have a background check. that means -- that's not just -- sometimes it's trivialized calling it the gun show loophole. it's on the internet. you can go on the internet right now, convicted felon, sex abuser, terrorist. >> 40% is not a loophole. it's standard operating procedure. we are going to take a quick break. more solutions as soon as we come back. this is so so soft. hey hun, remember you only need a few sheets. hmph! [ female announcer ] charmin ultra soft is so soft you'll have to remind your family they can use less. ♪ charmin ultra

we're now hearing atf, fbi agents are currently on scene. so they are helping the local law enforcement who have already been on campus for the better part of two, two hours here. additionally the school district here in harris county, if you're in harris county, texas, this is important to you, this is jermaine to you, the school district is in the process of sending a call out to parents to tell parents that the dismissal today would be delayed. so this public information officer for this aldean independent school district saying there is no reason to believe a shooter is on any of those campuses, but, again, the lockdown at these schools in the area has been issued for precautionary measures. we're working on turning around some sound here as i had just talked to jed young who called us from another campus, but it was affiliated with the lone star college. here is what he told me, as we keep looking at pictures together, and this is still unfolding for us, said the call came in to police dispatch around 12:31. shooting happened. he told m

but the atf to live to the other person's shoes. but use of portion of the five. that is what produce the first black president there browning of the electorate that that fear and anxiety is legitimate and we all need to leave cognizant and listen to the side to find the common ground to where we can feel good to what is possible. especially collectivity. >> host: what you teach? >> guest: i am a filmmaker so right now we focus on graduate courses that films can be a medium for scholarship. for those that write these books but if you make a film then everybody would see the project. that is the incentives but it might allow you if you use film to tell a story it might allow you to say different things about the world. but a visual dissertation to think about producing knowledge these images and sound account as scholarship the way a journal article would count not just the public scholarship. we do that across the graduate curriculum. and finishing a syllabus now how to do anthropological research. so how do we recalibrate for these interesting concept? >> host: w

guns traced to crime, you would think congress would say go get the bad dealers, instead they said atf can't share that information anymore and if you do, you go to jail not the dirty dealers. that's what we're up against. and the public not weighing in. the president had it exactly right. the public must call and demand -- >> jennifer: you, sir, are going to be the president of the association of responsible gun owners. >> sounds good. >> jennifer: john rosenthal, founder of stop handgun violence. still to come, unrest in egypt we hear that phrase a lot lately, and finding a solution will be job one for john kerry. and trust me trying to remake the military while cutting its budget is no less difficult to pass, and unrest in the republican party. well, at least can smile about that one. the latest strategy? act more like democrats. it's "the war room" on a wednesday. we're just getting started. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit even the smallest things became difficult. i finally understood what serious joint pain is like. i talked to my rheumatologist and

one option, appointing a full time director of the atf. >> it's been a very long time since the senate has confirm add head of the atf. >> reporter: congress has not approved a nominee for the past six years. obama could install one himself. he could direct them to investigate more gun thefts. right now they investigate only when ten or more are stolen and only if one is connected to a crime. another executive order option, enforcing a 1968 give up law that prohibits the import of certain assault-style weapons. >> he believes we ought to take common sense and enact common sense measures that protect our second amendment rights but prevent people who should not have happens from on staining them. >> reporter: he made it clear president obama will not rely solely on making executive orders. the white house says he will need approval from congress for tougher gun legislation. >> some congressional republicans are claiming they had little say in the gun control proposal given to president obama. our washington bureau checked attendance records for meetings of vice president joe biden's gun

checks data launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership program, and nominate a permanent atfector, that's the bureau of alcohol tobacco firearms and explosives. common sense gun control and of course the republicans and some democrats want to fight this tooth and nail. >> cenk: of course, by the way that jerk rush limbaugh came in and said oh, he's trying to use the kids as human shields. oh for christ's sake. bush and reagan never had kids in signing ceremonies when it's about you kids. >> the democrats who may fight against this, it's not as tooth and nail as some crazies in the republican party. there are some people who are on the fence. then marco rubio said nothing the president is proposing would have--stopping such violence. >> cenk: this is the thing that is driving me craze. none of this would have stopped sandy hook. you know what would have stopped sandy hook? if we had much tougher gun control. oh he's not doing enough so it wouldn't have stopped sandy hook. great, let's do more. >> rubio is saying he's not doing things to attack the underlying problems that ther

the police were working with the atf, following the car after a tip it burglarize a gun store. of the 29 guns found, one was loaded. both men were take ton shock trauma with non-life-threatening injuries. >> the weather story has been heat. widespread sunshine jacking temperatures up into the mid-60s in bel air, mid-60s in columbia. mt. airy very warm. almost 70 in mardela springs. the breeze off the chesapeake, that kept you cooler than the rest of the state. the numbers are very, very warm. look at points south of us well into the 70s in roanoke and richmond. we'll stay in the warm air flow. parts of maryland likely pushing 70 tomorrow, but we'll be cloudier and rain by tomorrow night. this evening we stay dry, variably cloudy and dry. much more on the approaching rain system and another cold shot. it's straight ahead. >>> the baltimore county school also soon be more secure. county leaders outlined a series of new steps to help unwanted visitors out and keep the kids inside safe. >> reporter: although they still have to get approval for the almost $4 million price tag, the n