it is delightful to be back at the atlantic council.t is great to see some of my former colleagues who i so enjoyed working with and jane, thank you so much for that introduction. i really appreciate it. you have been a woman leader in our homeland security and national community and like everyone who has served in the army you are also a soldier for life. thank you so much, it's great to be here. i spent the last few weeks testifying with general mcconville in front of congress and meeting with senators and representatives and talking about really the top three priorities of the army. people, modernization, and readiness, talking about striking a balance between meeting the demands of today while also preparing for the future. but given this audience and given everything i know about the atlantic council i thought that this afternoon i would talk a little bit about how the army is going to play its part in implementing the national defense strategy that the department has just issued in the last several week. there are three primary li

collin martin, analyst at the atlantic council. not only the level, but the rate of change of yields rising in the last few days, is this a market back in on the inflation, reflationary trade with yields higher? collin: i think it is a rebound from a was likely too much of a pullback over the last few weeks. kind of in line with the bounce we are seeing in risk assets like stocks, high-yield bonds. i think it is a reversal of seeing that 10 year yield fall too much. in terms of where we go from here, maybe yield can move a little bit higher, but what we do not see much room for them to rise, there it is in the immediate or long-term, based on what our outlook for the fed is. how outlook has been that they are probably going to have a difficult time getting even getting to 3%. we have been slightly below market expectations. it seems like they have come down to meet what we are expecting. right now given expectations of a fed funds rate only in that peak 3% area, there is not just room for yields move much higher from here. jon: obv

i'm ambassador richard morningstar, and i'm the founding chairman of the atlantic council global energy center, and formerly ambassador to the european union, among other things. it is my pleasure today to moderate this discussion. the atlantic council eurasia center and global energy center are delighted to welcome you to this event to talk about the richard: are sanctions on russia working? i'm ambassador richard morningstar, and i'm the founding chairman of the atlantic council global energy center, and formerly ambassador to the european union, among other things. it is my pleasure today to moderate this discussion. the atlantic council eurasia center and global energy center are delighted to welcome you to this event to talk about the effect of sanctions implement it on russia's war machine thus far and the prospects for expanding sanctions in the future, particularly on expanding energy sanctions. we have a really distinguished panel today to discuss those measures. i will introduce them now. erik woodhouse, deputy assistant secretary of state for counter threat finance and sancti

taking you now to the atlantic council for discussion on the impact in russia. join the conversation. >> are sanctions on russia working? i'm ambassador richard morningstar, and i'm the founding chairman of the atlantic council global energy center, and formerly ambassador to the european union, among other things. it is my pleasure today to moderate this discussion. the atlantic council eurasia center and global energy center are delighted to welcome you to this event to talk about the effect of sanctions implement it on russia's war machine thus far and the prospects for expanding sanctions in the future, particularly on expanding energy sanctions. we have a really distinguished panel today to discuss those measures. i will introduce them now. erik woodhouse, deputy assistant secretary of state for counter threat finance and sanctions at the bureau of economic and business affairs at the department of state, has had a career in the private sector as a law your, as well as the treasury and the state department. he went to stanford law school, where i went and t

the atlantic council eurasia center and global center delighted to welcome to you this event to talk about the effectiveness of sanctions implemented on russia's war machine thus far and the prospects for expanding sanctions in the future and in particularly, also with an eye on expanding energy sanctions. we have just a really distinguished panel today to discuss those measures and i'll introduce them now. erik woodhouse, the deputy assistant secretary of state for contra threat finance and finance and sanctions. at the bureau of economic and business affairs at the department of state. erik's had a career in the private sector as a lawyer, as well as treasury, a long list in the state department. most important, he went to stanford law school where i went and taught for several years. we also have alexander sherba, former ukraine ambassador to austria and now the chief advisor to the ceo, and he'll have important comments on where we ought to be going. ed chile who is a nonresident senior associate for the climate program at csis, and spent many years at chevron and is an old frien

should already take it straight and get into armed conflict, while completely goltila on the atlantic council few former military leaders. they directly say that it is urgently needed here. here, listen to one of these, it's time for nato to remember something nato goes beyond the scope of action, or nato ceases the activity of stoltenberg, who is supported by other members of the alliance that she can not actively interfere there. if you quarrel, they don't attack. this idea has become 90 years to intervene. let's officially order the russians to stop this fire. let's stop all of this. it won't stop without intervention, fuck diplomats love to argue about terms, but it all starts with the courage of national leaders from national leaders of countries, the west. i don't understand where we are. i call for intervention. nato is general clark famous. well, let's just say that he is an extremely unworthy character. he has been known to us since those times when he tried to overturn our landing force and tried to give orders to subordinate troops to engage in battle. collision with our guys. well

if i'm wrong, i'll wear it >> i see. >> fred kempe of atlantic council.p-ed on cnbc.com. fred, thank you. >>> coming up, morning rbi the scary stats on how many people may face eviction from the rentals. the numbers you have to hear coming up. because you've got the next generation in global secure networking from comcast business. with fully integrated security solutions all in one place. so you're covered. on-premise and in the cloud. you can run things the way you want —your team, ours or a mix of both. with the nation's largest ip network. from the most innovative company. bring on today with comcast business. powering possibilities.™ i had no idea it was that easy to diversify my portfolio! ♪♪ go to investor.gov today to learn about diversification and other valuable investment information. before you invest, investor.gov. - common percy! - yeah let's go! on a trip. book with priceline. you save more, so you can “woooo” more. - wooo. - wooo. wooooo!!!!! woohooooo!!!! w-o-o-o-o-o... yeah, feel the savings. priceline. every trip is a big deal. ♪♪ giorg

national defense strategy and the army's top three priorities during remarks at the atlantic council. she also noted

nato secretary general and hans stoltenberg following the results of the meeting of the north atlantic council. that's why these will be held in madrid. the aim will be to think through all possible options to make the alliance even stronger. i am convinced that the summit will have a transformative character. we will strive to decisions in approximately 5 areas to support and help ukraine and other partners that are under threat and i hope that president zelensky will also take part in our summit we will also develop our strategic concept of responding to challenges with a wolf give leadership you understand that the pacification of the pacific ocean region who will also participate in the summit and also we will provide resources to all our allies as well as a-a consideration of applications for membership of finland and sweden yesterday and today we have made tremendous progress we met with the minister of defense of ukraine pmereznikov and we discussed the prospects of our further cooperation, as russia will continue to wage war against ukraine therefore, we will continue to arm ukraine. a

for accepting our invitations and melinda haring deputy director of the eurasian center of the atlantic council i am also very pleased to introduce to you arseny yatsenyuk will come to ukraine in 2014-16 and the head of kyiv security at the forum, we will begin with a special appeal to ukraine and kyiv security in the form of mr. mirchi joan, deputy secretary general of nato dobrogo good morning, ladies and gentlemen, dear friends. it is a great honor for me to speak in front of you today together with many hm distinguished speakers arsenium danyla . thank you for this opportunity and congratulations on the fact that you have once again organized the kyiv security forum in such difficult times for your country and the discussions you are conducting within the framework of the form are very important, so i am glad that i have the opportunity to take part in them historical site of nato madrid is taking place at a turning point russia's brutal war of aggression against ukraine brought bloodshed in your people she has destroyed the peace of europe and is fueling the food and energy crisis in this

and a lot of people who worked for the atlantic council, the think tank here in washington that is funded by nato. so it should be no surprise when twitter announced the labels that would be tagged to certain profiles like my own twitter account, effectively calling me a social media russian agent if you will, because of my affiliation to r t or, or our accounts get suppressed. and basically, shadow band, other journalists from china, iran, venezuela. many others also get labels and shadow band, but not so if you're a reporter for the b b fee or n p r, coincidence, i'll let you decide all this information though important for the average user to know about who's actually controlling what at twitter in washington i manila chan ah, now an investigation by the un. how's fond is really forces responsible for the recent fatal shooting of an al jazeera journalist? we've inspected photo video audio material. we visited the scene and we've consulted with experts, and we've looked at official communications. we've interviewed people who are also on the scene based on this very rigorous sam monitor

than the connection with russia or membership in the eu notes vladan zivovich, chairman of the atlantic councilerbia , as its president aleksandar vučić proudly noted, is the only country in europe that did not to join the anti-russian sanctions of brussels, where they have already adopted six packages of restrictive measures and now they are talking about the seventh . solve painful for belgrade. the issue of kosovo 's autonomy is a problem that was essentially created by the hands of the west and is now being used for political pressure. how else to regard these words of the former prime minister of sweden carl bilt. i heard that serbia invited the russians. foreign minister lavrova to visit belgrade in the coming days, if president vučić intends to sink his prospects with the help of the european union, then this, of course, is an ideal move. this is a step directly contrary to the eu accession process . and it should be considered as such an independent course of belgrade, haunts the west, which is accustomed to hosting the balkans. for example, in neighboring bosnia and herzegovina. after

experienced diplomat of the united states, deputy secretary of state andy sherman, spoke today at the atlantic council in washington. and there were many interesting messages in this speech, some of the most important ones i would like to tell you just in time sherman states that it is already obvious in moscow and in washington that the continuation of this war is not in the interests of russia and moscow has and here will be a quote more than one way out of of the current situation around ukraine, and that is why the american leadership in washington calls on russia to stop. while there is a possibility and the consequences have not yet become catastrophic and inevitable for russia, well, you understand that this message, which is currently infuriating the press you and i are talking about him now, this is a message not only for the domestic american audience in the states, they want it to be heard in other capitals as well, sherman also says the quote, it is obvious that moscow is not achieving its goals, there are many exits from that road but putin has not yet decided use none of them, and this i

the united states of america to ukraine and also the director of the eurasian center at the atlantic council greet you, mr. ambassador, in russian. in russian i often don't always understand about ukrainian i'm better well i speak russian a-a well then we will talk to you eh as we said on the subject of the lend-lease his eh his supplies of the nearest supplies eh you also estimate eh it is possible already in two or three weeks to receive ukraine's weapons from the united states of america. how does our ukrainian representative aleksey arestovych say that they promised that in a few weeks the victim will fly to ukraine and be transported to ukraine? john how do you think why ? we have here in ukraine and the people of ukraine are in power, and in particular, there is a clarification that somehow these deliveries are being delayed. well, i do not once criticize the administration for the fact that they send all the necessary weapons and not always. i am bored, and even i would say that the processing spout a-a simple for a hoop to get missiles against ships it’s good but it was necessary to

the current situation on the fronts, general u retired joined the discussion organized by the atlantic council, a military expert recalled the actions of the nato nations of yugoslavia when, with the informal consent of the un security council, on march 24, 1999, the alliance troops began an operation in the then war-torn federal state, mainly naval and air forces of the united states, great britain were involved in it france and germany. i think that for nato it is time to understand whether nato goes beyond the defined territory or ceases its activities, the idea of ​​the secretary general which today i found support that nato cannot do anything unless there is a direct attack, this idea was debunked back in the 90s. it is time to return to the lessons we have learned. nato must intervene. let's officially announce it and not tell the russians to cease fire. the war cannot be stopped without intervention. to the alliance, what are the conditions for this to happen, how much territory will have to be surrendered, how it will look on the battlefield, diplomats like to argue about this. but it

and a lot of people who worked for the atlantic council, the think tank here in washington that is funded by nato. so it should be no surprise when twitter announced the labels that would be tagged to certain profiles like my own twitter account, effectively calling me a social media russian agent if you will, because of my affiliation, who are he or are our accounts get suppressed? and basically, shadow band, other journalists from china, iran, venezuela. many others also get labels and shadow band but not so if you're a reporter for the bbc or and p r, coincidence. i'll let you decide all this information though important for the average user to know about who's actually controlling what at twitter in washington . i, manila chan. it's been a pretty miserable existence for citizens of don boss since the ukrainian government to of 2014, with war zone life fast becoming the reality. next, we look at a particularly hard owing part of the frontline and bustles between kids and local forces are short documentary the grey zone. it's right ahead. ah. in the grey zone inhabitants have learned to

drones in the longer term. the process of accession of these states was initiated by the north atlantic councillliance itself in madrid, the secretary general of nato announced this, and jenstoenberg, in his words the invitation agreed with the partners was the result of an agreement between turkey and finland, the entry of these two states was delayed due to a number of demands from sweden, which were managed to be resolved on the eve of the day, the case of the possible pressure of the ex-president of the usa trump on the former vice-president has the potential to cancel the election results, the struggle of ukraine in the war started by russia, these are the top topics of the national american media this week, but they are talking about ukraine and on regional channels all over the states , why is the american viewer interested in ukrainian topic and how local reporters work on stories about ukraine, we look further in the story of our correspondent reporter and host of the american tv channel fox twenty threenews ketting james talks about the peculiarities of working with news about ukraine

president 's office, mykhailo podolak. it is at many public events such as the events of the atlantic council, in particular , the head of the joint chiefs of staff of the united states, general mark emily , spoke about it

commander-in-chief of the allied forces of the united states and nato, during the regular meeting of the atlantic councilated to ukraine, noted that the ukrainians need 300 howitzers, 500 tanks, and armored vehicles in 2011. but we do not have this simply because the equipment is not available and this is a fact philip bridla is a retired general of the us army, the commander of the combined forces of nato in europe in 13-16 adds that in the usa they made a big announcement what is being transferred to ukraine rsv but it is only four fire units i was told that we are talking about 84 shells, these ammunitions will not be enough even for one day, so what do you think about this assessment and this verdict, the equipment is needed, but it is not available, and if it is not available in sufficient quantity, how to get out of this situation and overcome it well, we need to clarify a little if we are talking directly about howitzers, mykhailo podolyak, he directly indicated the caliber of these howitzers - it is 155 mm, but he did not emphasize that these will be m-77s, yes indeed. if we are talking about m-7

question er we have an occasion deputy secretary of state rick woodhouse spoke today at the atlantic councilgton and he just said first he said that there will be new sanctions, that the united states will not roll back the sanctions policy and introduce new reforms against moscow, and secondly, he explained the purpose of those sanctions, this is just interesting because there was a lot of talk about the introduction of the station. firstly, to strike at russia and belarus, that is, to make them pay the price for support for the beginning, for the fact that they conduct this military company, this terrible war, and secondly, to force russia to start negotiations with ukraine, this just a new message i'm hearing it now for the first time, however , an official of the state department says that sanctions are not only a punishment, they are also a means of coercion in order for russia to stop and start negotiations with kyiv. the states will provide our state with seven and a half billion dollars for budgetary support. what is known is this some new money or is it part of a package that has al

earlier, i spoke to ambassador rama yade, the senior director of the atlantic council's africa centerd its symbolism means? this visit was originally scheduled forjune 2020, for the 16th anniversary of congo's independence and it has been postponed three times because of the pandemic and the war in ukraine but it was necessary, also necessary to organise it before the presidential elections to avoid being accused of interfering with the elections. so this visit, like you said in the report, has a very strong memorial dimension since the king has planned to visit the memorial veterans, where the issue of the restitution of art objects is discussed right now and during his pitch on the esplanade of the parliament today, the king reiterated his regrets about the colonisation and its impact but some are already disappointed because they were awaiting more apologies and reparations. rama yade there. the world of men's professional golf is being rocked by a breakaway saudi—backed tournament that's about to get under way in the english town of st albans. the eight events will have prize mone

trade eric watthouse, he took part here in washington in a round table that organized by the atlantic council, this conversation was online, you will now see the footage. well, you know , the online conversation is so much more lively, more open, and what the admirer was talking about, he just said that by introducing sanctions to the western world, he understood that he would have to face and, as the problems escalated, he would have to face unforeseen consequences with er consequences that were not expected in principle. but they were ready that this price would have to be paid. well, he just gives an example. he is just talking about the readiness of america's european partners to abandon of russian energy carriers from russian oil and says that it is clear what this causes and the rise in prices, it is clear that it causes difficulties, but it is necessary to go for it, it is this, and the price must be paid in order to get rid of energy dependence on russia, well, during that online discussion, it just sounded a very important point that i would like to draw your and our audience 's atte

to the head of the president's office, mykhailo podolyak . events such as the events of the atlantic council, in particular , the head of the joint chiefs of staff of the united states, general mark emily , spoke about it, and other and other military men spoke about it, but again i would like these requests to be documented and submitted to pe, well, the route so it turns out that there is no such document, there is no official comment from the representative office of the ministry of defense, ivan kyrychevsky, expert, defect, express exchange rate, and we will now move on to news and then come back yes, andrii, we will have one more hour and we will talk about the restoration because anna eva melnyk is now going to beat me up for delaying the time. well, we will give it back on time at 18:00 anna eva melnyk , it is with live news espresso sport thank you colleagues for your the work will continue to be done by the news editor about the most important things, in particular about the fact that a shelter is being set up in mykolaiv for those people who lost their homes due to a large-scale in

is a former us ambassador to ukraine, and is currently director of the eurasia centre at the atlantic councila. hejoins —— he joins —— thank hejoins —— thank you so much for your time. hejoins —— thank you so much for yourtime. how hejoins —— thank you so much for your time. how serious they will the usb viewing these new warnings being by moscow? usb viewing these new warnings being b moscow? , ., , ., , by moscow? these warnings are very old. in fact, — by moscow? these warnings are very old. in fact, they _ by moscow? these warnings are very old. in fact, they are _ by moscow? these warnings are very old. in fact, they are somewhat - old. in fact, they are somewhat laughable. ukrainians are threatening —— excuse me, the russians are threatening to go off political leadership if we continue to send these longer—range weapons to send these longer—range weapons to ukraine. as you know, they attacked kyiv massive at the start of the war and were defeated. what this means is that moscow is afraid of us sending more potent military equipment to ukraine. they are afraid we will make it easier for

a study by the atlantic council estimates that the total economic loss from excessive heat is at least $100 billion annually. they also estimate that this loss could double by 2030 and quintuple by 2050 if we don't take climate action. simply put, the fiscally responsible thing to do is for congress to act quickly to prevent further losses. taking climate action will lower and stabilize who ises for families. high temperatures aren't just bad for human health, they are bad for our economy. heat waves push prices for electricity higher, costing us billions. we should not leave in families in california and across the country to figure out their budgets while washington figures out climate change. the need for climate change is urgent not just for our planet but also for our pocketbooks. our nation is failing people with posttraumatic stress disorder. during june, ptsd awareness month, we must commit to doing better. mental health afcts many across our nation, but i rise today to shine light on the brave young people dealing with ptsd. too many americans, including many with ptsd, go wit

i think you'll see around that north atlantic council table. you'll see 32 nato allies instead of 30. okay, james, by the 4th and madrid in speaking to us at the end of that speech that we just had that from the native chief young sultan burg, concluding date, 3 of the nato summit in madrid. we have heard a loss of announcements in the last couple of days. nato announcing plans which essentially will carry out the alliance is the biggest over hole since the cold war . lot small on the story on our website. do check it out. out to 0 dot com. coming up. next is inside story. stay with us here on out there. ah. the worsening economic crisis in sri lanka, the government has restricted the sale of fuel that comes days after the prime minister says the economy has completely collapsed. so what school the crisis and what are the consequences? this is insight story. ah hello, welcome to the program. i'm hashim aha, butler, sri lanka is facing an unprecedented economic meltdown. and people are suffering. pat old pumps are nearly dry and the government h

ambassador rama yade, is the senior director of the atlantic council's africa center — she joins us nowsm mean? this visit was initially _ and its symbolism mean? t�*u 3 visit was initially scheduled forjune 2020, the 60th anniversary of congo's independence, it has been postponed three times because of the pandemic in the war in ukraine, but it was necessary and so necessary to organise it before the presidential elections to avoid being accused of interfering with the election, as it is visit, like you said, in your report, has a very strong memorial timing since the king has planned to visit the memorial veterans, where the issue of the restitution of our objects as discussed, and during his speech, the king reiterated his regrets about its impact but some are already disappointed because they were expecting more opportunities and reparations. j more opportunities and reparations.— more opportunities and reparations. i was going to sa , an reparations. i was going to say, an admission - reparations. i was going to say, an admission of - reparations. i was going to l say, an admission

ambassador rama yade, is the senior director of the atlantic council's africa center — she told us morescheduled forjune 2020, for the 16th anniversary of congo's independence and it has been postponed three times because of the pandemic and the war in ukraine but it was necessary, also necessary to organise it before the presidential elections to avoid being accused of interfering with the elections. so this visit, like you said in the report, has a very strong memorial dimension since the king has planned to visit the memorial veterans, where the issue of the restitution of art objects is discussed right now and during his pitch on the esplanade of the parliament today, the king reiterated his regrets about the colonisation and its impact but some are already disappointed because they were awaiting more apologies and reparations. let's catch—up with all the latest sports news. hello there, i'm gavin ramjaun, and this is your update from the bbc sport centre. golf gets set for a new, and controversial series on thursday with the start of the new saudi—backed liv invitational events. th

let's hear more on ukraine from andrew d'anieri, who is an assistant director at the atlantic council's center. ukraine's severodonetsk is a tactical loss but it's not what we call a strategic defeat. of course, ukraine does not want to give up more territory to the russian invaders but severodonetsk is not a huge city — this isn't mariupol, this isn't kharkiv — and ukrainian forces will be able to retreat further from the front lines and will be able to regroup and defend ukraine from arguably possibly a better position than they were in severodonetsk, so a loss, to be sure, but not catastrophic. and while we have seen ukrainian forces pulling back, they have been counter—attacking in other areas — for example, around kherson. yeah, kherson is interesting because this is where ukrainian forces have been most successful, aside from in the north, in counter—attacking. and we've also seen some partisan activity in russian—occupied kherson region. and that combination, along with the transfer of long—range rockets from the us, could allow ukraine to launch more successful counter—attacks a

is a former us ambassador to ukraine and is currently director of the eurasia centre at the atlantic councile of president putin's warning of attacking new targets if the west continues to supply weapons to ukraine. these warnings are very old. and, in fact, they are somewhat laughable. the russians are threatening to go after the ukrainian political leadership if we continue to send these longer range weapons to ukraine. in fact, longer range weapons to ukraine. infact, as longer range weapons to ukraine. in fact, as you know, they attacked kyiv massively at they attacked kyiv massively at the start of the war and were defeated. what do these threats mean? it's that moscow is afraid of ascending more potent military equipment to ukraine, were afraid it will make it easierfor ukraine to were afraid it will make it easier for ukraine to defeat them. ' easier for ukraine to defeat them. �*they are right about that. in fact, we should be sending more and more sophisticated and long—range missiles than we are sending. the us has had to walk a tightrope when it comes to this, you have to continue

i'm joined now by andrew d'anieri, who is an assistant director at the atlantic council's eurasia centeretsk over the last couple of days. how big a loss is that city for ukraine? ukraine's severodonetsk is a tactical loss but it is nontropical and strategic defeat. of course, ukraine does not want to give up more territory to the invaders but severodonetsk is not a huge city, this isn't murray mariupol or kharkiv and ukrainian forces will be able to retreat further from the front line and will be able to regroup and defend ukraine from arguably a better position than they were in severodonetsk so a loss to be sure but not catastrophic.— loss to be sure but not catastrohic. ~ ., catastrophic. while we have seen ukrainian _ catastrophic. while we have seen ukrainian forces - catastrophic. while we have | seen ukrainian forces pulling back, they have been counter—attacking in other areas, for example around kherson. areas, for example around kherson— areas, for example around kherson. ,., , , kherson. kherson is interesting because this — kherson. kherson is interesting because this is _ k

joining me now is the director of the resilience center at the atlantic council. for being with us. cities all have public health departments and when it 's extremely hot cities will set up cooling centers, why have one person in charge of this one specific thing. >> when you think about hurricanes in the u.s. we have fema overseeing and taking care of what happens before and after a hurricane and when you think about fire, we have the u.s. forest service and we have state-level cal fire, there's no governance, there's no one in charge of heat. secondly, there's no season for heat and these heat waves don't have names or categories and so we need someone in charge of taking care of planning and thinking through protecting the most vulnerable people from this climate-driven hazard which is the most deadly of all of them. >> two examples of cities in which i've lived, los angeles and sierra leone. in l.a. the problem is heat and drought. in freetown, the biggest problem is flooding. give us concrete examples of what these people would do. >> well, in freetown, the f

jonathan: ellen wald of the atlantic council, thank you. for a break even in the goa -- the bond market. they're getting hammered and going the other way. lisa: you're looking at people pricing in the recession and the fed -- the fed may and of causing. over longer we revert back to a lower inflation environment. how gasoline can affect that is interesting especially given the fact that if it stays as high as it is, it will spur the recession or exacerbate. how does that fit into inflation? jonathan: how much longer on these price pressures particularly in energy? showing up in the data we got a week. tom: let's go back to lagarde. let's take spain, 10% inflation because that is a round number. the path down from 9, 8, 7, 6 will help it somewhere or another and we should maintain optionality. my study for the third quarter is to get to 5% inflation, pick a country. is not matter. the steps from their greatly diminished the optionality, degrees of freedom the central bankers have. that is when it gets hard. jonathan: lisa had it at -- 2.3 sh