attica was a very convoluted way. i ultimately met some of the surviving hostages. one of the surviving hostages -- i mean, one of the slain hostages' sons is still a corrections officert attica, and he wanted me to see it. and so it was through him that i was able to get in and see the catwalk, and he showed me, you know, this is where my father was killed, this is where the bullets were. but had it not, again, been for that and, frankly, speaking of privilege, had i not looked like i looked, i would never have probably gotten in there to see that. >> are you aware of the reform passed for prior felons to apply and go to suny college? >> i saw that, and again i think this really speaks to that other legacy of attica which is not repression which is the legacy of, again, reaching into the humanity of the story and understanding that part of, part of this process has got to be healing, and part of this process cannot be abuse -- no. none of this process can be abused. part of it has to be learning, healing, education, recognizing that people in prison are people. >> how are we doing on time? >> [inaudible] >> okay. i love this question. >> oh, dear. [laughter] >> no, y