knew as an auo earner. so i think it's a complicated pay system that is difficult to navigate. >> do you agree this would simplify that pay system? >> yes, sir. >> make it easier to manage? >> yes, sir. >> i should have brought a picture of my farm here. i live 75, 80 miles south of the northern border. what impact -- what impact do you think -- you've already said that this would -- this would help with retention and recruitment, mr. judd, and senator coburn has already said he doesn't want to reduce pay. and i believe both of you, okay? the question becomes if we -- i'm very concerned about retention and recruitment and kind of, mr. judd, give me your take on how this will be accepted versus completely redoing the system and not giving the kind of predictability that i think this bill does. >> senator, it's very simple. back in 1997 what i pursued a career with border patrol, i was in the process of two other local law enforcement agencies. these were in very desirable locations in which to live. the only

or l auo in the past 12 months than i ever knew as an auo earner. so it's a complicated pay systel that is difficult to navigate. >> would you agree this would simplify that pay system. >> yes, sir. yes >> make it easier to audit? >> yes, sir. >> i want to talk about retention and recruitment for just a second. i should have brought a pictureo of my farm in here. i live about 75 miles, 80 miles south of the northern border. what impact do you think -- you already said this would help with retention and recruitment,e mr. judd, and senator coburn says he doesn't want to reduce pay, and i believe both of you, okay? the question becomes if we -- i'm very concerned about retention and recruitment. and kind of, mr. judd, give me your take on how this will be accepted versus completely redoing the system and not not giving the kind of of a predictability that i think this bill does. >> senator, it's very simple. back in 1997, when i pursued a career with the border patrol, i was in the process of two other local law enforcement agencies. these local law en

auo. mr. hamrick has testified that the hours are being worked, but it's being improperly compensated. if it was properly compensated you'd actually be paying me more money than what auo pays. i'd love to keep auo. in fact, if i could convince you to amend the auo laws, i would do that, but, unfortunately, we have this budgetary constraint where nobody is willing to consider time and a half overtime system and, therefore, we're asking you for this. jo fin >> fine. we're going to have several rounds, right? so my time is up. >> about halfway through my questioning when i yielded to dr. coburn. i want to come back and pick up where i left off. and the question -- the next question, we've talked about this a little bit but i want to talk about it some more. the question i would ask, start with you mr. miles and come from my right to my left, but what concerns have been raised about -- let's go back. what concerns were raised by the original policy that's been in place for a number of years. w

measures such as the comprehensive review of auo eligibility to eliminate cp's use of auo. thank you for the opportunity to testify here today. i look forward to answering your questions. >> mr. chairman, thanks again. for showing up on such short notice and testifying. the next and final witness is mr. miles, adam miles, please proceed. >> chairman carper, ranking member coburn and senator tester. thanks very much for inviting me to testify on behalf the united states office of special counsel. i'm pleased to have the opportunity to discuss osc's cases and ongoing work to address widespread misuse of overtime payments to dhs employees. i want to acknowledge quickly dhc's team. many sitting kathryn, joanne, natia and mason gayle. together, their work with wist blowers has helped to identify and address over $37 million of annual use of overtime pay. special counsel caroline learner's april 21st communication to the president outlined longstanding terms of uncontrolled over time with auo. this an issue first addressed in 2007. the communication in october 2013 prompted signi

knew as in auo. it's a complicated base system that is difficult to navigate. >> would you agree this simplified beppe system? >> yes sir. >> want to talk about retrenchment of equipment for just a second. i should have brought a picture of my farm. i live 75 or 80 miles south of the northern border. what impact do you think -- you already said that this would help with bertrand -- retention and recruitment mr. mr. judd and senator coburn has already said he doesn't want to reduce pay and i believe both of you. the question becomes i'm very concerned about retention and recruitment and mr. judd give me your take on how this will be accepted versus completely redoing the system and not giving the kind of addicted billy that i think this bill does. >> senator is very simple. back in 1997 when i pursued a career with a the border patrol i was in the process of two local law enforcement agencies. these local law enforcement agencies were in very desirable locations in which to live. the only reason that

for using auo. so whatever system we went going forward, it's always better to have three shifts than four. you have better capability that way but you would still need to figure out how to transfer that knowledge and that means time. >> let me just follow up on this. you address this in part but i'm going to ask it anyway. what would be the impact on your operations and your ability to secure the border if you were forced to move to four shifts across the border as a result of not being able to use administratively and controllable overtime to pay for shift changes? >> you would just need more agents to do the same amount of work. we would prefer and it's most advantageous to the organization in predicting costs and future stability to have three shifts than four. it's more cost effective. you have to hire the more agents to get the same coverage across the same time period. >> finally, how will the tester-mccain bill we're considering today impact your ability to schedule the shifts at the border.