ronald reagan's budget director david stockman versus austan goolsbee. then, america's debt and deficits going forward will largely be caused by one factor, health care. how do bring these costs down. the great debate we should all be having. steven brill and david goldhill present two very different views. also, anthony bourdain on globalization and food. what does he learn from eating stuff all over the world. >> that's good. >> i'll ask him. >>> and a lesson in ethics from an unlikely source. an emerging markets business titan. ratan tata ran india's biggest conglomerate and how businesses should live by a moral code. >>> i grew up admiring margaret thatcher. it was obvious to many of us in india in 1970s that economics didn't work and her forms were the right course. privatize industry and deregulate have largely been vindicated by history, but that doesn't tell us very much about what to do today. consider the world in 1979 when thatcher came to power. the average britain's life was a series of interactions with government. telephone, gas, electrici

austan, thanks. >> wonderful to see you, jenna. rick: we all know texting and drive something bad now researchers say something is worse and something just about all of us do. the breaking details coming up in a live report coming up next. people join angie's list for all kinds of reasons.

austan, do you first.think it's a good idea to raise taxes again on the rich with an economy in this kind of shape? >> my understanding is that that was coupled with very clear proposals for cuts to entitlement programs. the president is for a balanced program to reduce the deficit and i think that's the right way to do it. stuart: you're an economist. >> if you're going to crush social security and medicare as the alternative that most americans would be for that. stuart: you're an economist do you think that tax increases of any kind in in economy are good. real fast, austan. >> it wouldn't be now, so that's a false choice. stuart: paul conway, if we get tax increase on the rich, any kind of tax increases, what's your forecast of what it does to the economy? >> well, i'm happy that austan is a supply cider, this is what is going to happen. those who create the money and means to do it to employ the americans who are dropping out are going to get penalized once again for the fifth year in a row by this pr

>> in fairness, austan did not say that the numbers that we saw today on jobs were because of the sequesterhe was saying it would strengthen the argument against it. all economists agree it would be harmful. the question is has it been harmful so far? it has only been in effect one month reflecting the numbers and declining employment was not that great in this number. but this will strengthen the argument by the administration to say that once washington stands up from having been doubled over by that punch to the gut, we need to have a more rational approach to deficits reduction. in the eyes of the administration, that means, yes, some cuts but longer term, to entitlements rather than to discretionary spending in an arrest by trary way right now. they don't want further tax increases but it will be an interesting back and forth and see whether this propels those negotiations over a budget deal. >> back to austan's remarks, he says that now you're going to interestingly start seeing a the love discussion about maybe the sequester is a bigger deal than people thought. we know after that de

only have a minute, austan?> simpson-bowles gave you targeted amount, said two it two or three to one cuts to revenues. and that is similar to the ratios the president is proposing here. it is similar to some of the ratios you've seen from some republicans but if this attitude prevails tha can't be any revenue and we're not going to count past spending cuts as part of the total, only the against the revenues, then i don't think they can make a compromise. jenna: barney frank calls it a terrible policy and terrible negotiation strategy. so we'll see what the reaction is once everyone get as look at this plan which is happening now for the very first time, regardless how much we talked about it. austan, thanks. >> wonderful to see you, jenna. rick: we all know texting and drive something bad now researchers say something is worse and something just about all of us do. the breaking details coming up in a live report coming up next. people join angie's list for all kinds of reasons. i go to angie's list to gauge whe

former chair of the president's council of economic advisors, professor at the university of chicago, austan goolsbee. you weren't invited to the party? >> no, i wasn't. >> sean: eight vacations between the bidens and obamas since the beginning of the year. let's look at this in the bigger picture. i want to run through a list of stuff. i promise i'll leave you plenty of time to respond. let's look at the polls. by the way, cnn, hardly a conservative organization, the president's approval rating on the economy, disapprove, 54%. the federal budget deficit, disapprove, 58%. here are the scary numbers. these all came out last week. u.s. census bureau, 50 million americans living in poverty. 50. children in america living in poverty, one out of five. 20%. food stamp participation increase since obama took office, 48%. number of food stamp participants, nearly 48 million americans. then another 14 million on permanent disability. number of food stamp participants under the age of 18, nearly 20 million. add to this, we have 90 million fewer americans in the labor force. 90 million, and yet he's th

former obama adviser austan goolsbee said this is a punch to the gut.nd worse, new york magazine tweeted today's jobs number is more disappointing than justin timberlake's new album. >> i like the new album. >> oh! >> that hurts. peter, in all seriousness, give us a prescription. what would one thing that obama should be doing to get these numbers up? >> what do you think of justin timberlake's new album? >> that was going to be my follow-up. >> how about this? where did the host get that bow tie? did he wear that for me today? >> okay. i guess the quickest thing that we could do would be, i think, to drill for oil. off the coast, off the gulf coast and off the pacific coast and so forth and get rid of all these -- >> speaking my language, peter. >> i understand that. did you speck a conservative to say something you like in response to that question? >> no. i like it. i'm into it. >> i would like to drill for more oil. i would like to do something about the trade deficit with china. mr. krugman agrees that we should put some kind of tax in. there i wou

. >> here's a comment by austan goolsby. >> we all overshot it, this is a bun punch to the gut, thisod number. i think now when we start seeing a lot of discussion about maybe the sequester is a bigger deal. >> actually you were right there on that panel. so you really know what was said. what's to blame here? is it the sequester? is it the payroll tax? >> more payroll tax probably than the sequester, we don't know either for certain. i don't think the sequester is a big deal in these numbers yet. i think what austin was suggesting is that the sequester is going to bite more in furlows, that really haven't taken effect. you kind of want it to take effect from a higher level than where we're at right now. if the sequester is coming, it's coming from a job markets that's already pretty weak. but the payroll tax break which ended starting in january may be in these numbers. we saw for example that retail sales were down 24,000 in terms of jobs, that could be because people are feeling more of a pinch in their paychecks. >> so do you agree with what i read, which is the sequester affects

even austan goolsbee called it a punch to the gut. president may be on a fund-raising trip.n people want the answer to the question they have been asking, where are the jobs? martha: that is the issue, doug. everybody understands that fund-raising happens in a campaign context. the big question, he didn't even know about this jobs number when they made these comments yesterday but we have a lot of serious stuff going on. >> well, that's right. it is a traditional exercise, martha but the timing is unfortunate. there is good news. the president did take some steps, maybe baby steps towards the republicans with the leak of his budget propositively. he is going to do entitlement reform. he will reform social security. he wants new revenue but he is moving in the direction that he needs to go. it is just unfortunate he is on the campaign trail, bashing republicans when he needs republicans to get a deal to create the jobs. you're absolutely right to suggest we desperately need. martha: yeah. you know, we're going to get more into the details of that budget issue in a couple of m

>> gretchen: austan goolsbee says that we should be thankful because the president actually is tryingroblem with that analysis. >> it's getting better at a modest rate. it needs to be faster. you and i agree on that. >> where were you when the president gave back $20,000 of his salary? gave back to the taxpayer. >> cry me a river! cry me a river! how about -- forget the $20,000. how about stop taking vacations and playing golf with tiger at $180,000 air force one hour? you're on drugs! you can't be serious! >> brian: he did fly out there, the president, just for a fund-raiser to los angeles and he'll be coming to new york just to raise money. >> steve: yeah. so did the dnc pay 180,000 bucks an hour for air force one? i doubt it. i'm sure he was able to say it was part of my job. >> gretchen: some bit of controversy, an ad over at msnbc has melissa harris per yerkes one of their weekend anchors and a professor at tulane university, she talks about kids growing up in american society today and the fact that they're really part of the community. see what you think about it. is it taking

. >> and yet i hear larry summers and austan goolsbee and i hear paul krugman and joe stiglitz, all ofeagues talking about how we need to stimulate the economy with more government spending. government redistributes sources from the people who produce them to the people who didn't produce them. >> anyone? anyone? >> this is like november 1. you wake up and your stomach hurts from having too much halloween candy. is the result to gorge on more candy? >> i could have had candy apples and gum and spent money on all sorts of things! >> your government created a $16 trillion debt for my generation. i understand you're building an infrastructure for the future. some spending is necessary and good. >> this money is spent and injects demand into the economy and it's jobs created. it creates jobs faster than almost any other initiative you could name. >> ♪ you are my candy, girl and you got me wanting you ♪ >> we've got do something. >> ♪ honey aw, sugar, sugar ♪ >> when we first met angel adams, she was living in a motel room with 12 of her 15 children, ranging from 11 years to 15 months, and