and so here's now taking that -- out bie grauy autobu autobiogra- that's how i got into this. i do think the national constitution center is a great public space and i really got to know gordon when he was the founder really of the academic board. >> so you start very young, but let's say you didn't have such parents. let's say you get to college and you are required to take a course on the history of the constitution. i am required to take that course. how do you engage me immediately? >> i think it's actually a little late to start then, so i think politics is sport. i think it can be fun. >> i agree. >> if you can know all about the football team and your favorite baseball team, you can actually follow politics, which is very interesting, and know your presidents and every july 4th, i think we actually need materials, kid friendly, family friendly materials. a secular seder. we have to have occasional -- we have -- our calendar is built on occasions for remembrance. we call them memorial day, flag day and constitution day and july 4th and veterans day, and we're not using -