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Feb 6, 2025
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and aviva siegel joins me now. aviva, it's so wonderful to see you. of all, how is it having keith home? >> well. >> you know, it's a breed differently i feel differently. i feel like. >> a different person. >> i just can't tell everybody how stressed i was for a year and two months, coming back from captivity and leaving keith, there was the worst thing that could ever happen to me. and i'm just so, so happy to have him back. i want to say that when keith came back the first day, he looked terrible. he's lost so much weight and he really looked pale, sick. and we with him, we're hugging him, loving him, and he looks different and he's getting stronger and we love it. >> i wanted to ask. >> you because i saw him looking so thin when he came out on saturday, and being welcomed, of course, and embraced by you and your wonderful daughters. and then i saw an interview that. we did. >> in in. >> tel aviv yesterday with his brother lee. but how. >> is. >> he doing physically and mentally? >> you know, he's in a shock. we're all in a shock. and he's he's com
and aviva siegel joins me now. aviva, it's so wonderful to see you. of all, how is it having keith home? >> well. >> you know, it's a breed differently i feel differently. i feel like. >> a different person. >> i just can't tell everybody how stressed i was for a year and two months, coming back from captivity and leaving keith, there was the worst thing that could ever happen to me. and i'm just so, so happy to have him back. i want to say that when keith came back the...
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Feb 1, 2025
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followed by yarden bibas — who's wife and two infant the 65—year—old was kidnapped with his wife aviva siegeled more than 180 palestinian prisoners. of 0fer kalderon who has just been released, as well as who is still being held hostage by hamas. and how he is feeling about the release of his friend. and there is closure for the kalderon family that i know keith all his life. about the children in gaza while keith is still there, she is an angel. she is an angel, and seeing keith go out today, i was so happy. back, which is the most important hostage she said it's the first day she feels joy and happiness since october 7th, seeing arbel going out, so it's the energy here is crazy. you can see all the people from the square of tears face, how calm and happy they are, how the tears go what has the recent ceasefire meant for you and the fact that we've seen a steady stream of those held captive in gaza being freed? what has it meant for your movement? being elected and put the hostage issue as a strong and important it is to see the hostages back home, and as well to bring a ceasefire to gaza an
followed by yarden bibas — who's wife and two infant the 65—year—old was kidnapped with his wife aviva siegeled more than 180 palestinian prisoners. of 0fer kalderon who has just been released, as well as who is still being held hostage by hamas. and how he is feeling about the release of his friend. and there is closure for the kalderon family that i know keith all his life. about the children in gaza while keith is still there, she is an angel. she is an angel, and seeing keith go out...
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aviva. >> siegel. >> the wife of. >> keith siegel. >> who was the first israeli american hostage to be released on saturday. aviva spent 52 days in captivity. her husband, keith, 484 days. and i asked. >> her. >> specifically if. >> she was. >> worried about the fragility of this phase of the ceasefire and of bringing the hostages home. let's take a listen to what she has. >> to say, and. >> then we'll. >> talk on the other side. >> i just. >> want. >> to tell president trump and bibi netanyahu and hamas. just let them go home. >> please let them go home. >> they've had enough. we've had enough. everybody in this country has had enough. and knowing. >> and feeling what it's. >> like and being all sides now, being a hostage, being worrying for my. >> husband. >> that was a hostage for. >> 484 days. >> and now that he's released and i'm released in one way, knowing. >> what they're going. >> through, hell, just. >> please wake up before it's too late. >> so again. >> we're. >> likely to. >> get the three names. >> tomorrow if. >> in. >> fact. >> we're moving. >> forward. and then the three more.
aviva. >> siegel. >> the wife of. >> keith siegel. >> who was the first israeli american hostage to be released on saturday. aviva spent 52 days in captivity. her husband, keith, 484 days. and i asked. >> her. >> specifically if. >> she was. >> worried about the fragility of this phase of the ceasefire and of bringing the hostages home. let's take a listen to what she has. >> to say, and. >> then we'll. >> talk on the other side....
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Feb 7, 2025
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. >> reporter: an emotional aviva siegel, a former hostage, just welcomed home her american husband, keith. >> it's difficult for me to think he was there so many days without me, and there were so many moments that he needed me to be with him, and i wasn't there. >> reporter: president trump is expected to meet with one of the regional leaders who rejected his plan. jordan's king abdullah is due here next week. lester? >> kelly o'donnell, thank you. >>> the weather has been a mess for tens of millions across the country. 20 states socked in earlier today by a dangerous mix of snow, sleet, and rain. there were whiteout conditions in michigan and flash floods in hard-hit charleston, west virginia, where they got more than three inches of rain in just a few hours. al roker joins me now. al, this is the start of a pretty volatile week of storms. >> that's right. we've got a parade of storms, lester, this next one coming in out of the midwest for tomorrow with large storms. it's going to bring northeast ice, rain, and snow, possible power outages, and then continues off the coast on sund
. >> reporter: an emotional aviva siegel, a former hostage, just welcomed home her american husband, keith. >> it's difficult for me to think he was there so many days without me, and there were so many moments that he needed me to be with him, and i wasn't there. >> reporter: president trump is expected to meet with one of the regional leaders who rejected his plan. jordan's king abdullah is due here next week. lester? >> kelly o'donnell, thank you. >>> the...
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Feb 1, 2025
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you know his wife, aviva siegel. we've now started to see some images of her reacting quite similarly, although of course, with even more emotion. you know, she was also held hostage by hamas, was released last november as part of the previous ceasefire deal. and i've spoken to her a number of times, as she has ceaselessly advocated both in the united states and in israel. for her husband's release. and now she has finally been reunited with him. we have also seen the emotional images and sights of the other two israeli hostages who were released today. ofer kalderon, his children had also been taken hostage and they were released as part of that november deal as well. he is now also safely back on israeli soil. and then there is yarden bibas, the father of those two youngest israeli hostages, fear and ariel, who were just nine months old and four years old when they were abducted by hamas militants on october 7th. they, of course, have become really a symbol of hamas's brutality on that day. the fact that they, so y
you know his wife, aviva siegel. we've now started to see some images of her reacting quite similarly, although of course, with even more emotion. you know, she was also held hostage by hamas, was released last november as part of the previous ceasefire deal. and i've spoken to her a number of times, as she has ceaselessly advocated both in the united states and in israel. for her husband's release. and now she has finally been reunited with him. we have also seen the emotional images and...
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. >> because aviva siegel and the whole. >> family, her daughters. >> keith's brother, whom i've met with in israel and in the u.s. on. >> my. >> program on msnbc. >> you know, just. >> for more than a year. aviva got. out last november. she had been held for 53 days. >> she has been. >> one of the most. >> passionate advocates. >> among the hostage families, the american hostage families. keith was born in north carolina, came from north carolina. he's now 65 years old. she was, you know, so emotional in many. many months when he was not released. and he's the first american to be released in this whole new the new agreement that was. negotiated under tremendous pressure. first, of course, from secretary blinken on 13 separate. >> missions and from. >> his top negotiators, negotiators, as well as. >> of course. >> brett mcgurk, the key negotiator who was in doha for weeks and weeks and months repeatedly. >> working on. >> this for president biden. but most importantly, i think. >> in these in. >> this transition, it certainly has been president trump on december 2nd, he issued a trut
. >> because aviva siegel and the whole. >> family, her daughters. >> keith's brother, whom i've met with in israel and in the u.s. on. >> my. >> program on msnbc. >> you know, just. >> for more than a year. aviva got. out last november. she had been held for 53 days. >> she has been. >> one of the most. >> passionate advocates. >> among the hostage families, the american hostage families. keith was born in north carolina, came...
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safely with those israeli troops and is expected to be reunited in moments now with his wife, aviva siegel, who i've spoken to on many occasions over the last 15 months. she was also held hostage by hamas and released in that november 2023 ceasefire deal. i now want to bring in liora schwartz, who were at your home now and you're related to lee siegel. keith's brother. what has this moment been like for you to to see keith alive? >> relief. i'm so relieved that he's. >> back. >> and feeling. >> that i can. >> breathe again. you know, like relief, big relief and happiness. and yet it's also, you know, we still have to fight for the rest of the hostages. and. uh, and, and also, i want to thank the, the idf and the government of israel and america and and just so glad that he's home. >> yeah. and over the last 15 months, i know i've spoken to lee. i know that he has been fighting his brother for his brother. i know this community here has been fighting for his brother. tell me about the last 15 months and what that has been like. >> well, we've been going to as many, um, demonstrations as we
safely with those israeli troops and is expected to be reunited in moments now with his wife, aviva siegel, who i've spoken to on many occasions over the last 15 months. she was also held hostage by hamas and released in that november 2023 ceasefire deal. i now want to bring in liora schwartz, who were at your home now and you're related to lee siegel. keith's brother. what has this moment been like for you to to see keith alive? >> relief. i'm so relieved that he's. >> back....
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Feb 3, 2025
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. >> from keith siegel's wife, aviva, keith siegel.urse. >> the american. >> released over. >> the weekend. she has described. >> the dark. >> days when. >> she. >> was held captive, how determined she. was to. >> stay strong. >> after she was released and her. husband was not. she thanks president trump from the. >> bottom of her heart, and then she goes. >> on to say something. that many of these families are saying. i think they. >> see it as. >> very important. >> and that is urging. >> president trump to continue the process so that all of the hostages are released. all of the other 79. she says she thinks that's important because it is. there are others here in israel who think that the task is not finished in terms of taking on hamas, that at some stage it's going to need to be to be they're going to have to reengage militarily with hamas. now, talks are underway and will get underway more comprehensively for the second stage in the coming days and weeks. and the pressure is really going to be on to see if they can get this peac
. >> from keith siegel's wife, aviva, keith siegel.urse. >> the american. >> released over. >> the weekend. she has described. >> the dark. >> days when. >> she. >> was held captive, how determined she. was to. >> stay strong. >> after she was released and her. husband was not. she thanks president trump from the. >> bottom of her heart, and then she goes. >> on to say something. that many of these families are saying. i...
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younis, and this is a picture from earlier this morning of the release of the two other men, aviva, his wife. siegel's was a big yelp that went up. we know for the latest, britt, this handover was far more orderly than the past handovers. >> it was indeed juju. the crowd here erupted into cheers, but there was also tears of joy as keith siegel, the first american in this ceasefire deal to be freed after 15 months in captivity. as i say, there were tears. there were there were cheers, there were claps. but also, i think the overwhelming emotion here is one of relief as we saw those images on the big screen here in hostage square of keith siegel in his black cap, looking slightly thinner than he was before. he was waving at the crowd on the stage there in gaza city, in the port. now he will be taken for assessment. we don't know what his condition is like, and he'll meet there with his wife, aviva, and their son as well. now aviva herself. she was also taken with keith on october 7th from their kibbutz kfar aza. aviva was released in 2020 3rd november and the week long ceasefire, then an aviva speaking
younis, and this is a picture from earlier this morning of the release of the two other men, aviva, his wife. siegel's was a big yelp that went up. we know for the latest, britt, this handover was far more orderly than the past handovers. >> it was indeed juju. the crowd here erupted into cheers, but there was also tears of joy as keith siegel, the first american in this ceasefire deal to be freed after 15 months in captivity. as i say, there were tears. there were there were cheers,...
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Feb 1, 2025
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siegel's wife, aviva, was freed during a previous cease fire in november 2023.is the fourth time hamas has released hostages as part of the cease fire deal that ended the fighting in gaza. a total of 33 hostages were part of the truce agreement, but hamas has said eight of them are dead. in return, israel has set free hundreds of palestinian prisoners and once again, hamas now releasing dual american citizen keith siegel this morning. these live pictures show the 65 year old originally he's from north carolina. he was kidnaped together with his wife, aviva. she was released in 2023. their daughter was spared since she happened to be away when her parents were taken. we'll continue to update you on the latest from there in gaza. i'm chanley painter. now ck to regular programing. already in progress. >> at which it came down. >> well. 45 degree angle. of descent, totally uncontrolled. >> it looked like it was in one piece. it wasn't spinning. >> now that that aircraft. >> took off. >> out of philadelphia airport and absent. >> to me right away is even though. >> i
siegel's wife, aviva, was freed during a previous cease fire in november 2023.is the fourth time hamas has released hostages as part of the cease fire deal that ended the fighting in gaza. a total of 33 hostages were part of the truce agreement, but hamas has said eight of them are dead. in return, israel has set free hundreds of palestinian prisoners and once again, hamas now releasing dual american citizen keith siegel this morning. these live pictures show the 65 year old originally he's...
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siegel's wife of 40 years, aviva, was released during a brief ceasefire agreement in november 2023. siegel's released today comes a few hours after two other hostages were set free, including a french israeli citizen, ofer calderon, and yarden bibas, the father of the two youngest hostages, a four year old and a nine month old. their fate, along with bibas wife, remain unknown, but the idf has noted that there is grave concern for their well-being. the release of calderon and bibas took place in a different location from siegel, who was paraded around the port of gaza in gaza city. this is the fourth time hamas has released hostages as part of the fragile ceasefire deal that ended the 15 months of fighting in gaza. in all, a total of 33 hostages are part of this ceasefire agreement. but hamas has said eight of them are dead, including four american hostages. it is believed there are two remaining american hostages still alive. hamas is holding the bodies of the deceased captives as part of this ceasefire. israel has agreed to set free hundreds of palestinian prisoners. once again, ha
siegel's wife of 40 years, aviva, was released during a brief ceasefire agreement in november 2023. siegel's released today comes a few hours after two other hostages were set free, including a french israeli citizen, ofer calderon, and yarden bibas, the father of the two youngest hostages, a four year old and a nine month old. their fate, along with bibas wife, remain unknown, but the idf has noted that there is grave concern for their well-being. the release of calderon and bibas took place...
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among them, 65-year-old keith siegel, originally from north carolina. his wife, avivaated the news. she was released 14 months ago. >> maurice: and senator mitch mcconnell of kentucky is on "60 minutes" this sunday. now 82 and no longer the top senate republican, he tells lesley stahl he expects to support most of trump's second-term agenda. >> reporter: you said that january 6th was evidence of donald trump's complete unfitness for office.% >> i said shortly after january 6th that if he were the nominee for president, i would support him. >> reporter: even if he is unfit for office? >> i'm a republican. i don't get to decide who gets to be president. the american people do. and you have to admit, they did. and he's back. >> maurice: and lesley joins us now. so good to have you with us. so what kind of republican are we talking about here as far as about mitch mcconnell is concerned? is this john mccain 2.0, by any chance? >> lesley: yeah, sort of. he is not an maga republican. he is a ronald reagan republican. he supports alliances, he likes nato, he is for more defen
among them, 65-year-old keith siegel, originally from north carolina. his wife, avivaated the news. she was released 14 months ago. >> maurice: and senator mitch mcconnell of kentucky is on "60 minutes" this sunday. now 82 and no longer the top senate republican, he tells lesley stahl he expects to support most of trump's second-term agenda. >> reporter: you said that january 6th was evidence of donald trump's complete unfitness for office.% >> i said shortly after...
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mission reacted to the release of the hostages saying, quote, today i join aviva, her children, grandchildren and the entire siegelily in breathing a huge sigh of relief that fellow american keith is home after 48 agonizing days -- -- 484 days in captivity. we won't rest until all the hostages come home. an empathetic, timely and human message from america's top diplomat in israel. david? david: trey, very quickly, i want to talk about one non-american, yarden bibas was released, his wife and two kids are left behind. do we know anything about whether they are safe or not in. >> reporter: we don't have any public information on whether or not they are safe. we do know that previously as the war was at its peak, hamas released a saint saying they had been killed -- a statement saying they had been killed during the can conflict. there was also a hostage video of yarden released where with he reacted to a hamas telling him this horrific news. we've not been able to independently confirm that information, but we do know the israelis are investigating and expect the get more information as we head into the final phase
mission reacted to the release of the hostages saying, quote, today i join aviva, her children, grandchildren and the entire siegelily in breathing a huge sigh of relief that fellow american keith is home after 48 agonizing days -- -- 484 days in captivity. we won't rest until all the hostages come home. an empathetic, timely and human message from america's top diplomat in israel. david? david: trey, very quickly, i want to talk about one non-american, yarden bibas was released, his wife and...
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Feb 1, 2025
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siegel's wife of 40 years, aviva, was also taken during the attack, but was released under a brief ceasefire and prisoner swap in 2023. november 2023. siegel's released today comes a few hours after two other hostages were set free, including a french israeli citizen, ofer calderon, and yarden bibas. the father of the two youngest hostages taken a four year old and a nine month old. their fate, along with bibas wife, remains unknown, but the idf has noted that there is grave concern for their well-being. now this release of calderon and bibas took place in a different location from siegel, who was paraded around the port of gaza in gaza city. this is the fourth time hamas has released hostages as part of the fragile ceasefire deal that ended the 15 months of fighting in gaza. in all, a total of 33 hostages are part of this ceasefire agreement. but hamas has said eight of them are dead, including four american hostages. it is believed there are two remaining american hostages still alive. hamas is holding the bodies of the deceased captives as part of the ceasefire deal. israel has agreed to
siegel's wife of 40 years, aviva, was also taken during the attack, but was released under a brief ceasefire and prisoner swap in 2023. november 2023. siegel's released today comes a few hours after two other hostages were set free, including a french israeli citizen, ofer calderon, and yarden bibas. the father of the two youngest hostages taken a four year old and a nine month old. their fate, along with bibas wife, remains unknown, but the idf has noted that there is grave concern for their...
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Feb 5, 2025
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amna: hanna siegel, thank you so much for being here, for sharing stories of keith. and avivawhom are now free. we are so glad to hear it. geoff: there are many kibbutz communities that were gaza, and many of them were attacked october 7 by hamas, but one was among the highest death tolls and perhaps the greatest destruction was nir oz. now, as some of its members were released just this past weekend after nearly 18 months in captivity, the community there is facing an existential question -- how to rebuild, and how to be reborn. producer karl bostic in israel and nick schifrin have this report. nick: it must be torn down, some residents say, to rise up again. kibbutz nir oz is taking the first step to regain what was lost, removing ruins to heal the hurt. >> we want to come back to nir oz, and we feel that it cannot paralyze while living this system. you know? nick: ola has lived in nir oz for 30 years and has raised her kids here. she says to give nir oz new life, it has to be reborn. >> something beautiful has to raise from the ashes and start from scratch. i think it will
amna: hanna siegel, thank you so much for being here, for sharing stories of keith. and avivawhom are now free. we are so glad to hear it. geoff: there are many kibbutz communities that were gaza, and many of them were attacked october 7 by hamas, but one was among the highest death tolls and perhaps the greatest destruction was nir oz. now, as some of its members were released just this past weekend after nearly 18 months in captivity, the community there is facing an existential question --...
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Feb 4, 2025
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aviva was released in november of 2023, during a week long cease fire. i spoke a short time ago with keith siegel'snnah. welcome back to the newshour. good to see you. hannah: thank you for having me. amna: q so that a video of your uncle being released, being paraded. what was it like to see that coming to know he was still alive in that moment. hannah: i don't have any words. it was really surreal. there've been several moments over the past 15 months where we thought he would be released, and then it would not happen. he was a little thin and a little pale, but mostly i saw my uncle, he looks like himself. amna: how is he doing today? have you been able to speak with him directly? hannah: he's talking and sharing a lot. he remembers everything. it's of amazing. he's used a lot of mental tricks to keep himself saying. he spoke to the family a lot in his head. he thought about anniversaries, birthdays, really showed remarkable mental fortitude and sort of taught himself to survive. it is incredible. amna: has he shared anything with you about his time in captivity that surprised you, that you had
aviva was released in november of 2023, during a week long cease fire. i spoke a short time ago with keith siegel'snnah. welcome back to the newshour. good to see you. hannah: thank you for having me. amna: q so that a video of your uncle being released, being paraded. what was it like to see that coming to know he was still alive in that moment. hannah: i don't have any words. it was really surreal. there've been several moments over the past 15 months where we thought he would be released,...
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siegel is handed over to the red cross. on october 7th he was taken from his home alongside his wife, aviva.eased in the cease-fire of november 2023. finally this morning, the end of a long and agonizing wait. aviva and their son, shea, watching from a tv at the base as keith was handed over by hamas. she told me last september how she has been dreaming of this moment. >> and i just can imagine keith coming out and me just screaming and jumping on him, and i will be just the happiest person in the whole world and keith, from the minute he comes home he is going to be the king. he's going to be the king of the world. >> reporter: now that day has finally come. hamas releasing two other hostages this morning, a separate event in the city of khan younis, bringing yarden and bibas to a stage before handing them over to the red cross. the two have safely returned to israel. many followed the story of the beebate family since the october 7th attacks. he is the fare ther of the two youngest kidnapped. his wife seen clutching the month old and 4 year old. their fate is unknown. in exchange for this
siegel is handed over to the red cross. on october 7th he was taken from his home alongside his wife, aviva.eased in the cease-fire of november 2023. finally this morning, the end of a long and agonizing wait. aviva and their son, shea, watching from a tv at the base as keith was handed over by hamas. she told me last september how she has been dreaming of this moment. >> and i just can imagine keith coming out and me just screaming and jumping on him, and i will be just the happiest...
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siegel. >> member 65 year old segal is a north carolina native, but he's lived in israel for many years. >> his wife, aviva, was also abducted by hamas on october 7th, but she was released during the first cease fire in november of 2023. and i'm joined now by their niece, hannah segal. hannah, thank you so much for being here with us. we are really, really happy for your family, and i think everyone just wants to know how your uncle is doing today. >> so much. . >> for having. >> me. um. it's surreal. we've been waiting for this day for so long. he's he's. >> doing okay. >> all things considered. >> he's getting. >> checked out at the hospital as. >> all hostages do. um, you know, from the videos and photos, you can probably tell he's lost some weight. and he's pale, but, um, but he's he's doing okay. and we are so grateful for that. i know you are. and it is just so good to see him back with his family where he belongs. i know that your aunt, who i've spoken with before on this program, was taken along with your uncle. she was freed back in november of 2023. this has been hell for your family. um, and hop
siegel. >> member 65 year old segal is a north carolina native, but he's lived in israel for many years. >> his wife, aviva, was also abducted by hamas on october 7th, but she was released during the first cease fire in november of 2023. and i'm joined now by their niece, hannah segal. hannah, thank you so much for being here with us. we are really, really happy for your family, and i think everyone just wants to know how your uncle is doing today. >> so much. . >> for...
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siegel has been in israel for about four decades. he's originally from north carolina, but he moved to israel when he was in his 20s. his wife, aviva, was also taken hostage during the hamas invasion. she was freed during a previous cease fire in november 2023. two other israeli hostages were released a short time ago. they are 54 year old orpha calderon and 35 year old yarden bibas. they were released in southern gaza. but that, as i say, is northern gaza just to the edge of gaza city. and we have been waiting now for about an hour to see 65 year old american keith siegel. we still expect to see him. we are told he is waiting there to be handed over. the way it's normally happened is they are put into a red cross vehicle and then driven into israel to be handed back to the israeli defense forces, who take them off to a hospital for the checkups that are so necessary after so long in captivity. we hope to see keith siegel very soon. in the meantime, kevin, it's been an honor being with you on what has been a very tough week for this country. two tragic air crashes over 48 hours, first in d.c. and now this awful one in philadelphia.
siegel has been in israel for about four decades. he's originally from north carolina, but he moved to israel when he was in his 20s. his wife, aviva, was also taken hostage during the hamas invasion. she was freed during a previous cease fire in november 2023. two other israeli hostages were released a short time ago. they are 54 year old orpha calderon and 35 year old yarden bibas. they were released in southern gaza. but that, as i say, is northern gaza just to the edge of gaza city. and we...
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Feb 1, 2025
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the 65—year—old was kidnapped with his wife aviva siegel in the october seventh hamas attacks. a temporaryl in november 2023. this was the scene a short while ago as a bus containing 25 prisoners was greeted in ramallah. the other group of prisoners will be heading back to gaza. middle east editor, sebastian usher. is welcome news for families in israel and the palestinian territories. yes, there were _ from government and the !sraeli devernment and the ~ , ~ the way israeli public at the way the handover was handled last thursday. when large number thursday. when a large number of people, a large crowd gathered around the house that gathered around the house'thet as gathered ardund the hduse'that as they were many is as they were released. many israelis watch and felt that the physical well—being of those being released was if”: it jiopardy. jeopardy/7.7}; "13 inputting jeopardy. a strongly complaint was to worded complaint was made to hamas. what we saw today, was a much more orderly handover, not in any 7 in any way. in any way: no in any way. no sense of chaotic in any way. no sense of
the 65—year—old was kidnapped with his wife aviva siegel in the october seventh hamas attacks. a temporaryl in november 2023. this was the scene a short while ago as a bus containing 25 prisoners was greeted in ramallah. the other group of prisoners will be heading back to gaza. middle east editor, sebastian usher. is welcome news for families in israel and the palestinian territories. yes, there were _ from government and the !sraeli devernment and the ~ , ~ the way israeli public at the...