and we compete for them, cable competes for them, other carriers compete for these backhaul resources. so i think it's been a bit of a red herring. i think it's an example of where every country -- every company tries to get what i call their fair regulatory advantage. if i can leverage regulations to give me a pricing advantage, yippee. that's great for me. i don't see it as having any impact on 5g whatsoever because that train has left the station. we're going to see 5g built out. >> the fcc, though, is looking at quiteses in that special access. -- prices in that special access. they like to call it data services as if that's a better term. [laughter] i think they're sort of similarly clunky terms. what do you see coming out of this fcc investigation? what are your concerns? >> guest: you know, i think the fcc's been a bit misled because be they look at that market and say, you know, two providers, big companies with lot of lawyers negotiating contracts, that's not enough, we need to price regulate that, then i would say, well, wait a minute. you're starting down this path of where

you're going to need to get backhaul to them, power to those sites. that's a very difficult universe. we have a number of localities who we believe in federalism, but we have a number of localities that have been problematic in terms of allowing infrastructure builds. we've been trying to build best-case scenarios but we also have worst-case scenarios. we're trying to use authority that we have that congress has granted us to push those localities to allow greater infrastructure because, you know, the same breath we'll hear from mayor that my citizens want broadband, the same time, they'll say, but we don't want you to build. it's a push/pull. so we are obligated by statute to try and make available internet access and broadband. >> sounds like politics. with that, i'll respect the time and yield back. thank you. >> thank you very much. the chair recognizes mr. mcnerney of california. >> i thank the chairman. i want to thank the commission for your hard work. i mean, this is interesting but it's complicated and sometimes controversial, so appreciate y

wireline company. 5g, when that back to of the big things that wireless carriers need to build up 5g is backhaul. that is an the connection with the cell tower. it ties back into the network. playill come these ledgers -- companies play? >> that is a fascinating discussion. there are some people who have that it is critically important and it is. is somehow price regulations impacting 5g. happen regardless of costs are.nfo is affecting the spectrum. aid about thater is part of building up a network. spectrum, these are just built out infrastructure costs that many people compete for. cable competes for them. others compete for them. it has been a bit of a red and every company tries to get what i call the fair regulatory advantage. that is great for me. that train has left the station. prices on looking at that special access. that may be a better term. kathleen: i think the fcc has been misled a bid on this. companiesers for two with lawyers negotiating contracts, that is not enough. we have to price regulate that. i would say wait a minute. were starting down the path where to providers is not

then the providers of -- the principal providers of those backhaul services would raise -- also wirelesswe can't go there, we can't go there. this has been an issue i've been dealing with probably as long as you've been dealing with as well. the only reason i tell that story is because wireless -- wired infrastructure is essential for wireless and it will become even more essential in 5g because 5g is a multiple of much smaller cells that all have to be connected. and so what we're talking about here, yes, we're talking about competitive services, but, yes, we're alsoi talking about if wu are going to have this national priority and we are going to be the world leads in 5fwrkers in to be able to connect it and at high rates. that's why this is important. >> as you noted, the two of us wrote a joint op-ped on below the line fees. we've seen these fees skyrocket across the telecommunication marketplace in recent years and we know what they cost consumers. tell me, what tools does the fcc have to address the proliferation of this practice? >> i was pleased to bring this to the attention of