i am joined by attorney andrew grossmann an associate at the washington law firm baker hostetler andchief advocacy officers at the has panic association of colleges and universities great to have with you with us, andrew grossmann has the court greed broadly over the last couple of cases that diversity is a desirable goal to public universitys? >> well, what the court has decide second degree that diversity is the only conceivable goal that a university can attempt to further when -- by considering the use of race in admissions. and it has to do that -- it can do that only when it's absolutely necessary in a numerical. it's a broad rule that the government has to be color blind in its options . >> if i understand this correctly, if they decide that left for sort of things to take care of themselves, you wouldn't end up with a diverse class, you are allowed to put certain other considerations in to the mix in order to get one? >> that's right. it has to be part of a holistic inquiry. it can't be a wrote extra tents points or a brick on a scale it has to be done in a sensitive fashion.