steve bannon, you know, he had fights with steve bannon before. he called him a slot, which he is. he is a weird guy. bannon has proven to be very loyal. i don't think it the end of the day that musk will be loyal to trump. he cares about his own business. he has a lot of other interest in this besides being close to donald trump. >> ruth, i promise to get to the substance of it. we spent a lot of time on immigration policy and it promises to be of divide but there's so many layers to this fight. i thought in our conversations about american autocracy and the oligarchy. steve bannon, it feels like a piece in the bannon grenade he threw at musk's face which is anti-oligarchy, that wants to pull maga back to what bannon, it's roots. how do you see this public feud? >> first of all, we know many autocrats follow something called divided rule. if feuds break out among the top people, they use them to their benefit so the underlings fight it out and they remain supreme. so trump have sided one side or the other, but i'm sure part of him likes this. the other thing is we can study these

steve bannon has already had these fights with steve bannon before, and calling him a slob.ird guy but steve bannon has proven to be very, very loyal. i do not think at the end of the day, elon musk is going to be that loyal to donald trump. he cares about his own business and he has other interests in this besides being close to donald trump. >> we have spent a lot of time on immigration policy. promises to be an essential policy divide. there are so many layers to this fight and i thought of our conversations about this. steve bannon is almost like a piece in his grenade that he threw to the face of elon musk. it wants to pull mega back to what we view as it roots. >> so, first of all we know that many autocrats follow divided rule. if feuds break out among the top people, the use them to their benefit. the underlings fight it out and they remain supreme. trump could have decided on one or the other but i am sure part of him likes this. the other thing is yes. we can study these divides and schisms for what they expose and what they reveal about the contradictions and hypo

i mean, but but look, one of the things that bannon i mean, bannon in this bulwark interview talked about a lot of things. first of all, he said it's it's going to happen. right. but then he talks about the types of investigations. and as we know, a lot of it surrounds trump. he says there's a vast criminal conspiracy, including the media's. was it andrew weissmann and all of those fbi guys that work on msnbc? i think there will be big investigations into all of these people. i think there's going to be huge investigations, i believe, into 2020. i think it's going to be a huge investigation. on january 6th, the feds. surrection yeah. what? it's insane. it's going to be a huge investigation about the vast criminal conspiracy against president trump. i mean, it's really it's an effort to rewrite reality, right? >> i mean, there was an election. it was a it was considered a safe and secure election. there was an attack on the capitol and everything that followed. but now we have somebody who's been reelected who still never acknowledged that that election was legitimate. we've had four years

. >>> the only good thing about being in the swamp is you get to sit in the dojo that steve bannon built and that is where i am operating right now in my trump old mania t-shirt because that is is what it is all about. >> that is kash patel, the man trump's nominated to run the fbi. he has never worked for the fbi but he does host steve bannon's "war room" podcast a lot where he loves to share conspiracy theories. >> the chinese, the ccp, helped fund portions of the biden campaign. get the sergeant in arms to go out and arrest merrick garland. they want everything and every way to rigged this system, just like the censorship regime. we are going back to wuhan, going back to covid origins, and going back to another form of a mega virus that can take out china's enemies. they are in on it with the mainstream media, the biden- harris-walls campaign, and of course, the fbi. >> like so many guys in trump world, patel just can't stop talking which, you know, game recognize game. these folks are mostly made of podcasts at this point and from the little i have heard from what he has been saying

steve bannon, you know, he has had these fights with steve bannon before and called him a slob, whichd guy. bannon has proven to be very, very loyal, and i do not think at the end of the day, that musk is going to be that loyal to trump. he cares about hison business and he has a lot of other interesting things besides being close to president-elect donald trump. >> i do promise there is substance. we spent a lot of time about immigration policy. it promises to be one of the essential policy divides, but there are so many layers to this fight and i thought about all of our conversations about american atomic receipt and the oligarchy, and steve bannon is almost -- it feels like a piece in the abandoned grenade that he threw at musk's face, that is anti-oligarchy. he wants to poll a bag too, i think, what he calls its roots. what do you see with this? >> first of all, i think many autocrats follow something called divide and rule. if you break out among the top people, they use them to their benefit so that, you know, the underlings fight it out and they remain supreme, so trump could

but the bannon wing you're framing it as a racial argument. look at what bannon is saying.bout working class americans of all races black, latino, white who are the trump base. >> that's bannon. >> that's bannon. >> but there's musk is saying no no we want high school. he just wants a global. he wants his feudal overlord tech thing, which that's the difference. it's a difference in it's about class. >> well, i mean there are you know bannon may be saying that, but the point is there are other people who are properly racist who are saying racist stuff, and he is calling them out. >> and that's not the core of people who annoy. the core of people who annoy. the core of people who annoy. the core of people who are annoyed are the non—racist, ordinary american base who voted for trump, who now see this guy come in, who like. >> we're talking about we're talking about 65,000 people maximum. it's capped off there. so i mean, it's a tiny number. and if these people i agree close the loopholes, fine. but if they want to bring over the best of the best, the brainiest people in the e

from what bannon says on that program every day. and he has when i say an online army around him, he really does have many maga influencers with many, many millions of followers. and, you know, we've kind of heard this term internal maga civil war go around a lot the past 24 hours, but that really seems to be what's playing out. and i will just say, you know, conservatives, republicans have been very excited to have musk running x for the last two years. this is the first time we're really seeing musk going after people within his own camp, as it were. yeah. >> for people who think this isn't a real thing, this is the only thing that everyone that i've been talking to in trump world is talking about right now. >> no, i think it's absolutely right. listen, the democrats have got to figure something out here, too, because the democrats are a more natural home for some of these working class voters who have been in unions with many african americans and people of color, they've got to figure out how to make an argument that brings thos

that that steve bannon represents in terms of the maga universe.o is it safe to predict that this feud will continue? of course it is. is it safe to say that donald trump's interview with the new york post, while interesting, is not the final word on this policy debate? yes, absolutely. stephen miller, who is the rare trump adviser who has been with donald trump from the very beginning all the way back to his 2016 campaign when he was on the road with donald trump. he is going to be the key adviser in the white house, overseeing the administration' s approach to immigration. miller is an opponent not only of illegal immigration, but of much legal immigration to the united states. and he is going to be the key person in this new administration. so i think that this infighting, it's just a tiny hint of the levels of fighting and, you know, dysfunction and chaos that we're going to see in trump 2.0. why do i say that? well, past is prolog. and we saw an awful lot of that in trump 1.02. >> yeah. from a macro sense and also from a micro sense. because k

i can't help think what happened with donald trump and steve bannon. building and kept building with steve bannon and finally one night on the wonderful "saturday night live" show they did something and steve bannon was the exfacto president, and donald trump hated it and after that their relationship -- are we seeing that now? at some point when he becomes president and if elon musk keeps tweeting ahead of him and donald trump saying the same thing, there's going to be a battle of egos. and the question is who is going to win this one because elon musk has power beyond power. he has wealthy billionaire power, even took people up in the heavens, but he's also close to other world leaders. so how will this relationship play out even if there's a rift? because if it breaks, it could be at the detriment of the united states of america. >> steve bannon is no elon musk, but you nailed it, it's wrong. an unelected oligarch is preparing to run things. this is scary, scary stuff. >> and both of them, bannon and musk are going at it on the issue of immigration,

steve bannon? donald trump? elon musk? >> this is the cult of power and the cult of personality that donald trump postures. what are they for? they are for whatever donald trump and elon musk tell them to before. it is chaotic. it is contradictory. remember, they won on the dissatisfaction of the american people, whether right or wrong, with the state of government and the state of the economy. if they don't do anything about that, if they make things worse or they just continue this, they're going to get them out too. the american people are very anti-incumbent. western democracies these days have a very tough time staying in power because of this underlying dissatisfaction with democratic government, with inflation, with the complications that come with democracy. if they are in power for two years, what are they going to do to actually keep themselves in power? dating power for power's sake works. unfortunately, for them, we do still have elections and the american people will say, what have you done for me lately? if t

make them feel the pain. >> jonathan: and bannon was a featured speaker out there too.ok a shot right at republican speaker of the house, mike johnson. >> clearly johnson's not up to the task. he's got to go, right? he's got to go. should johnson be speaker of the house? president trump, these are your people. >> jonathan: by the way, mike johnson will stand for re-election as speaker of the house in just five days, in an election where he cannot afford to lose more than a single house republican. in just a few minutes, we're going to talk with a house republican and a trump supporter about how these fights will play out before trump is sworn in again as president of the united states, but we begin with the round table. former dnc chair donna brazile, abc news washington bureau chief and political director, rick klein, former trump justice department spokesperson and editor of request the dispatch," sarah isgur, and abc news correspondent and politico capitol bureau chief, rachael bade. so rick, we have what seems to be an all-out war between elon musk and what we somet

so i think what steve bannon is simply promising is never ending chaos and dysfunction. and i'm not so sure the american people are going to be up for that. >> jonathan last, who's an editor at the bulwark, writes, quote, right now, america has three presidents, which means we have zero presidents. the federal government is about to shut down because biden has declined to intervene. trump has intervened on one side, and musk has intervened on the other. the question is, how long can this situation go on, unquote. charlie, a month from now, biden will be officially out of the equation. how do you see this dynamic between trump and musk playing out as trump returns to the white house? trump just for people who weren't paying close attention yesterday, supported stood with musk when it came to getting rid of the compromise bill. and then trump was supporting the republican bill that then went before the house and failed. and, you know, musk had been drumming up opposition to the original bill. and it seemed at some points that maybe the excitement and the opposition that mu

bannon still is awaiting a new york trial. he's essentially tied up in that sense.ent in the white house where not only is there a history you just cited, but you have people around who yes, you can say they've paid their debt to society, that's how the system works, but the entire attitude is antilaw, antilaw enforcement, anti cooperation with these obligations while they are in some sense part of the branch that's both to as it says in their oath, take care that the law is faithfully executed. >> i think big picture, you can look at some of the proposed nominees as really running on what steve bannon sort of coined as you know, burn it all down. they're not just people who are not qualified. they're people who are running, running an agency and they're antithetical to that agency itself. rfk jr., primary example, severe, real health risk to the country, if not the world. that's just within healthcare. you can say the same thing for the justice department. kash patel would be in my view, a prime example, posing that kind of risk. you don't put people who have eithe

but steve bannon is out there saying, no, no, this is real.is is going to be something that he pursues in this position. >> yeah, a couple of things strike me. number one, this is what senate confirmation process is for. so when patel goes before the senate and i'm sure maybe he's getting these questions privately as well, he'll have to answer questions about what he has said in his own words, and also what other people are ascribing to him, like steve bannon. he'll have to do that under oath. number two, i can only really go to what donald trump has said. he's the boss and what he has said publicly in his meet the press interview on nbc was that he's not going to direct anybody to go after his political enemies. and in fact, it sounded to me in his interview like he was very much focused on the future, not in going back into the past. so i think between the senate confirmation process and what trump has publicly said, you know, i suspect we'll learn a little bit more about this between now and january 20th or the end of the month. >> van, is

his latest piece titled i listened to hours of trump's fbi pick on steve bannon's podcast. oh boy.h, thank you for doing this genuinely important work. your thoughts coming away from the qualifications and worldview of this individual? >> yeah, kash patel may or may not have significant experience with government. what he does have is a very very i think that is the best way to describe it. he is constantly drawing connections between one threat and the other, an external threat to american security, and whatever album he has with the biden administration, with democrats at the moment, all of which circles back to a kind of personal threat against donald trump, who he sees as really the linchpin of the american republic at least in the way he talks about things on this podcast. >> the overwhelming impression is that patel's worldview revolves around conspiracies against both american trump which for him are one and the same. i am reading beverly gage-- prompted by what's going on, he says specific obsession that reminds me of the fbi's first director a man who infamously abused his

and other -- and my friend steve bannon and others have suggested i return. i would remind him when he got out of prison, he did not punch a guard on the way out. for the moment, i will enjoy being one of you. james madison said the most powerful position in america would not be congressman, senator, or even president, but as a citizen because we put such an obligation on the citizenry to ignite the patriotism the country needs. [applause] god bless turning point! ted cruz: god bless turning point! we are gathered here at truly a momentous time. if you were young and passionate and it was 1776, you would have been part of transforming and creating the united states of america. [applause] if you were young and passionate in the year was 1980 and the reagan revolution was happening, you would have been part of transforming the united states of america. and today, in 2024, you are young and passionate, and every one of you is integral to transforming the united of america. the washington swamp is terrified of you. chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and kamala harris

it's what steve bannon talked about. >> denver riggleman, thank you for being here with me this evening relieved and thrilled that he did it, this was one of the cases that called out clemency, hunter biden first of all would not ever be prosecuted for the gun crime, but for his last name. second of all, he was addicted and that was a cause of his actions, he has now been sober for many years and this is a time when it is really appropriate for a grant of clemency. i hope that president biden will also issue preemptive pardons to all of those people threatened by the injustice of what will become the department of justice in the trump administration, that includes jack smith and all of his staff, many department of justice lawyers, it includes president biden himself, although we don't know that anyone can legally pardon themselves. he will need a pardon because he is going to be harassed and charged for no crimes whatsoever. donald trump has promised.>> anthony, to pick up on that, do you think that what played into the president's decision here is to protect his son from an incoming t

vance rose to prominence by appearing on bannon's and other right-wing podcasts.ypes like moi have to scramble to figure out who they are. trump is picking people already familiar to his base. it's how trump squeaked back into office keeping its fans especially the so-called man-o-sphere happy by people they entertained and people they trust because they're in their ear or in their phone or on their tv is how they will keep the meg dulla satiated and mass deportations, caged children and journalists and impure recalcitrants and the army marching through the streets of these cities. the revolution against democracy will be podcast, posted and televised. his un-elected bureaucrat billionaire boys club are elon musk and vivek ramaswamy planned to launch a cial podcast just to keep their fans on twitter they serve on the servicers they'll fire and services they'll cut and not sure how many contracts are awarded to themselves. yes, these cabinet picks seem crazy to normal people used to normal politics, but trump isn't filling a cabinet. he's casting a reality show. ca

you might think of him as the steve bannon of his day if steve bannon were a lot more productive with his hours. paul established the heritage foundation, which decades later published the project 2025 agenda. so it was a shock when paul wiric got up to testify at john towers confirmation hearing and said this. >> my concern stems first from questions regarding the nominees old character. the old saying goes where there is smoke there's fire must give one pause in this case. the smoke surrounding the nominee's personal life seems more intense. i have made enough personal observations of this man here in washington to have serious reservations about his moral character. >> reservations about john tower's moral character. the open secret on capitol hill that john tower had a drinking problem squuz known to his colleagues at a womanenizer. a republican senator had called wyrich before the hearing. he told "the new york times" have i ever drunk to excess, yes. am i alcohol dependent? no. have i always been a good boy? of course not. but i've never done anything disqualifying, that's the p

trump seems to be siding with the billionaires over the bannon's. jolly is back with us and our conversation is drawn by zeke hernandez, professor at the wharton school at the university of pennsylvania and the author of a book called the truth about immigration was successful societies welcome newcomers. good to have you back. zeke, i don't know if i did justice of the explanation. wanting to explain why we have this particular class of visa and what it's purposes in america. >> i think you did a good job explaining how the program works. the thing i would add is the limit of 85,000 you mentioned has been in place the last 20 years since 2004. the economy is more than doubled in size since then. think how different the technological profile and geographic competition. we haven't increased the amount of visas we allowed and we need these people more than ever. one fact to add is we only allow 85,000 but as of the last fiscal year, companies demanded nearly 500,000. demand outstrips supply here which is why so many company ceos are desperate to get m

steve bannon was not the richest man on the planet. he doesn't have that kind of power or unlimited resources to weigh in on every single race in the country if he wanted to. how do you think trump will handle this new perception he is subservient to elon musk? >> well you know, vice president trump is not a role he wanted. and right now, he is essentially the vice president. he is essentially running in elon's wake, running in elon's shadow. operating under the rules and the terms elon musk wants him to operate under. and elon musk makes steve bannon look like a picture of modesty and goodwill. the thing about musk i think that is interesting is that he is capricious. he has a short attention span. he is given to long running benders on his social media platform in the middle of the night about whatever strikes his mind. at that moment. he will draw trump in with more and more radical things. elon endorsing the german neo- nazi party. even trump is not going to come out and hug a neo-nazi party in germany one hopes. but we have one wi

steve bannon would say, that's not a good thing. no ammunition is not good. right, steve? and i built so much ammunition so fast, nobody's ever seen anything like it. we give a lot of our ammunition away, as you know. and we have to take care of ourself, we have to protect ourself. and we have to make our country great. [applause] we just can't keep doing what we're doing. [applause] especially when these wars never had to start. they never had to start. we will rebuild our once-great cities including our capital in washington, d.c., making them safe, clean and beautiful again. and we'll to the it quickly. [applause] -- we'll do it quickly. we'll teach our children to love our country, to honor our history and to always respect our great american flag. [cheers and applause] we will get critical race theory and transgender insanity the hell out of our schools, and we're going to get it out of our schools very fast. [cheers and applause] i will defend religious liberty. i will restore free speech, and i will defend the right to keep and bear arms. [cheers and applause] and a

would be no better place than to announce what did you some of which is a joint venture with steve bannonservative films back into the ecosystem. government gangsters the movie is the first one end is coming out in the spring just a couple months. we are very excited about that. here's the thing. eight years ago the deep state was real. when donald trump came down the escalator in 2015 in trump tower the deep state was already moving at 100 miles an hour. the deep state projected on us we were the neocons, the conspiracy there is because we dare to call them the deep state. state. when we fast-forward eight years later they have multiplied. they have put their army on the ground in government agencies and departments from the dod o the fbi to the doj. they have weaponized justice. they have politicize the intelligence community. they have sees our department of defense from the men and women who have the audacity to serve and where the cloth of this country and they have tarnished the reputation. they have led to disasters in afghanistan, in ukraine, initial and elsewhere but they blame u

steve bannon calls it flooding the zone. it's it's actually modeled on soviet style propaganda, and it's just about creating a sense that nothing is true. you know, fill the media space with so many lies and distortions and you say things like it doesn't matter if that images is real. it feels like what's real and then what that leaves with is this nihilistic sense that we trust anything that we in the media, we can't trust any video. we can't trust any. and it leads us to this place of basically confusing politics with esthetics. and this is something that walter benjamin, a german, talked about back during early days of, you know, hitlerian fascism, because now have to describe, you know, certain kinds of fascism with attached names. there's not just one type of fascism anymore. so back during that period, benjamin says, yeah, i've noticed, you know, that like instead of politics, we just have kind of art and fashion, and that nazi ism is kind associated with this vibe. he didn't use the word vibe, but but that's where we'

or will we see a flurry of steve bannon style pardons? what do you think, mary? >> i think that joe biden is likely to use the same process that has historically been used. not sure it was used with respect to his son, but applications come into the office of the pardon attorney, which is created within the department of justice, which reviews applications and they are usually people, as joyce indicated, although not required by the constitution, who have accepted responsibility. these get evaluated based on severity of the crime, the remorse, things the person has done to improve him or herself. whether the sentence, for example, that the person got would be commensurate with sentences today. usually, that's reviewed by the highest levels of the department of justice. the deputy attorney general then those packages that for which the department of justice agrees with the office of the pardon attorney to recommend clemency, those goes over to the white house. so i suspect those packages are being prepared right now. i remember the end of the obama administration

and tucker is 40 times more clever than steve bannon. he's 40 times more connected. he's also very connected with elon musk and everything else. and he's a very bright man. who should not be underrated. i think he has more influence in this current administration, way more than vernon jordan had in the clinton administration or any of the wise men that were around. but tucker is very, very, very powerful. and the kash patel pick proves that beyond any doubt at all. >> and it's important you're drawing those connections which you may know about. there always hasn't been a light on this, and there was a lot of time in the election, where moderate republicans said he doesn't mean it. this is rhetoric. all the rhetoric is becoming policy. i do have an update and a breakdown on kash patel. when you look at what's happening on the hill, you have the a.g. pick who replaced the nominee who already dropped out, matt gaetz was pushed out, but pam bondi meeting with senators. that early loss may bolster the republican senators' backbone if they want to hold the line. we have pr

tenemos que tener una pelea, vamos a tenerla ahora, asÍ hablÓ otro aliado de estados unidos steven bannon los abogados tenemos un porcentaje, un 30% para los que estÁn sujetos. reportera: elon musk, cuyas empresas depende de trabajadores extranjeros, dijo que tendrÍa que ir a la guerra con esto. algunas cuentas de x fueron eliminadas. el presidente electo, donald trump dice que apoya las visas. presentadora: israel detuvo en una redada a una persona en gaza, el hospital estÁ vacÍo despuÉs de que 25 pacientes, junto con otros trabajadores sanitarios fueron llevados a un hospital de indonesia. 240 terrorista de hamÁs en este lugar. la secretaria de economÍa hablÓ sobre la deuda. hace unos dÍas el congreso no consiguiÓ una prologa de dos aÑos para extender el lÍmite de la deuda. las estafas telefÓnicas y mensajes de texto generan millones de pÉrdidas. los estafadores hacen pedidos de donaciones a sus vÍctimas, la mÁs afectadas son las persones de adulto mayor. veamos la recomendaciones para no caer en la trampa. >> si no conozco el telÉfono, no respondo. reportera: esta es la advertencia que

steve bannon, he's been talking about this for some time, but there is a -- i've heard within the trumpbate here or people close to trump. does he really expect patel to be confirmed as fbi director or is this a way to put out such a controversial pick that it takes the heat off somebody like pete hegseth or bobby kennedy or tulsi gabbard? >> that was definitely the theory with matt gaetz for attorney general, and so it is possible that that's the case, but the thing is that he can still serve -- kash patel should skep s -- could still serve in an acting capacity, if he fires christopher wray and puts him there on a temp rorary basis. he can do a lot in the time he holds that. that would be enough to satisfy trump. >> jonathan: there's an extra step to do that. donna, first, how hard are democrats going to fight on this one? i don't imagine patel will get many democrats. >> i think the democrats will have to sort through the debris and figure out which of the shiny objects they want to focus on, and with only, you know, handful of republicans possibly thinking about clause 2, section 2

but donald trump's hard liners on immigration, like steve bannon, they are not.o it was interesting to see how this plays out, but i would pretty much put money on the fact that i don't think this is the last time we're going to hear about this, wolf. >> i suspect you're actually right. kristen holmes, thank you very, very much. i want to turn now to cnn senior political commentator scott jennings for his analysis. here's republican congressman tim burchett, who is undecided on the speaker vote earlier today on fox. listen to this. >> i'll make up my mind friday or so. when we do the votes. i'll pray about it. i'll talk to the speaker some. i might talk to the president. president trump is very compelling, though. as i've said earlier, he's the largest dog in the pound. >> so what do you think, scott? will this trump endorsement put him over the top? >> i hope so, because the longer republicans engage in this infighting, the longer it's going to be until we get started on donald trump's agenda. >> i think that's why donald trump came out for mike johnson so stron

they want him -- quote steve bannon, they want him back in congress in january and find some white to reveal whatever the committee has on every member of congress. they support him because trump supports him. >> carol, matt gaetz is not going to go away. he won't be the attorney general, but a report like this in every other universe was immediately disqualifying. in 2024, this potentially not the case. how much will this report changes political future? >> i think the republicans who decided at the last minute to join democrats, the democrats on tthe committee and release the report after gaetz stepped down were trying to telegraph we are not going to let this guy sneak off for a little bit and continue to claim that there is no evidence of this material. there is no evidence he paid women for sex and no evidence he had sex with his 17-year-old in about it later, that she was 17. they were not going to let him do that out of fear that he would, again, rise in some way in the trump administration. maybe not as attorney general but in some other role. i think this report really alters

i'm just saying that it has been interesting and steve bannon had the best tweet at all, saying we willked about the tech brokes and said we will not be ruled by the guys who are mad they got stuffed in a locker. will: bannon said america is not an algorithm and that's a good statement but i want to be fair to vivek. will: this is really important. this is the crux of it. it is not, we are not also about just gdp. what is good for the american people, what's good for the american people is that we actually love our people and care about them and we want them to have the best jobs. it used to be its the jobs, americans don't want to pick strawberries, now americans want to stem jobs, but is that? will: to be fair, he is opposed to the h one b visa system and how it currently operates and while you both indict education. i have to save effect, this, his indictment was bigger than education. he said culture at a very young age, family level. and he's targeting specifically engineers and there's a big recipe that creates a great country but this debate could go on, we could have it for the

he went on steve bannon's podcast. said he wants to investigate all journalists who dared to oppose them in the 2020 election. things like that. we are talk about one guy who allegedly abused alcohol and did all the other things he did and the swarm approach is something to pay attention to. that some of trump's controversial nominees may get through because historically speaking the senate has a very hard time standing up to him. there is no evidence to suggest they have the appetite to really you know one after the other vote down donald trump's nominees. so that is an important factor to consider. there are so many controversies that help trump. >> yeah. and you have written, you have an op ed to this end about kash patel and how dangerous he is. we will take some time to talk about him. you call him more concretely dangerous than many of trump's other questionable choices. by time you wrote this, pete hegseth had already been his defense secretary pick. can you talk about the way in which you see him independent of

and in new york i look like steve bannon. that's just one name steve bannon. what about paul manafort? roger stone charles kushner if you get pardoned by him, you can become the ambassador to france evidently as well. democrats in all seriousness, i'm tired of the pearl clutching of we're better than that. we can't do all of that. if if he's going to do it let's make sure that we do it as well, because we're going to be there at the end having to make up all this other stuff. >> adam schiff who is on the list, he said he doesn't think it's a good idea he said it looks defensive. >> well, adam schiff, listen, the question is, would they accept a pardon? >> because if you don't think you did anything wrong which they didn't they might want to not take a pardon but i will say this. you're talking about an unprecedented crew of people coming in there. there listen, even if they don't indict you, they can investigate you into bankruptcy torture you with fbi investigations kash patel is evidently going to be our next fbi director. is that what you want to be dealing

i think bannon would appreciate it and mcluhan would have been mortified, but i'd be mortified. but in any event, i think that there something going on there with the, i guess, the mcluhan approach to our time magazine. and time did lean hard in for eisenhower at luce's explicit direction. some of the staff members did not want to be as supportive of eisenhower. but luce recognized that an opportunity in eisenhower and he wanted to have a who he was friendly with in stark contrast to roosevelt, but whom he hated and he, even after roosevelt died, lucille said, it is my duty to on hating him even beyond the grave. he was still hating roosevelt, but time did suffer as a result. and there was a joke. i lay out in the book, and i think you noted that there are many jokes in the book. i even have an appendix of all the jokes that i found that were told by or about ceos. and that in itself is, i think, worth the price of admission. but the about time was that time at this time was bipartisan because half the time it praised the republicans and the other half it bashed the democrats. i

what we did to trump and bannon, navarro, manna for her, to t trump's family, businesses, we t have trumpw doing to ue s what we did to them, can we? and by the way, face at the same people that said if donald trump is elected we will have a dictatorship. does it say like we will have a dictatorship under donald trumpl doesn't it sound like more like we have ongoing dictatorship itt joe biden? let me give e you my take on th. the biden regime has done moreti to root destroy the rule of laws of constitutional order against political opponents, most prominently of course donald trump and empowerment of the democrat party.st empowerment of joe biden. any past administration i can think of, in they are not done pure joy of these phrases or perspective pardons corrupt the law. imagine the following, imagine a president pardons himself noty for past offenses or possible federal offenses for any and all possible future offenses because that is what biden is talking about like he did with his son to cover his own corrupt tuck has.s.abou test think about this. the president has effectively from al

here is kari lake after steve bannon asked why she thought she was the right person to lead the voa.i've been in broadcast journalism for 30 years. but as most people in the war room posse know, i walked away from a luke rabb contract -- lucrative contract during covid after the government was pushing so many lies about covid, its origins, what kind of treatment we were allowed to have, about the vaccine, on top of that when the 2020 election, when that went down and that was rigged, i did not want to sit and push the government line. i really cherished my time as a journalist. when it became apparent it was getting impossible to be in journalism in a worldtationen over by propaganda -- world taken over by propaganda i chose to walk away rather than stay in it. >> does that sound like the voice of america to you? npr's media correspondent david fulkanflict joins me next. t joi. . >>> the news was bad. america had been at war just 79 days. a uboat had fired on california, and the president struggled to improve arms production. ♪♪ >> this is the voice speaking from america. >> the voic

i like what steve bannon has said, that that america is not an algorithm.e also said we don't want our country run by people that got shoved into the lockers. charlie: not revenge of the nerds. will: i want to give vivek proper context. he agrees it's not just education, and it's not just concern he thinks it's cultural from a very young age and that we need to encourage people to pursue these past of excellence. if we don't, we're going to have to bring in the best from across the world. my criticism of vivek is i know he believes in american exceptionalism, but i believe what makes us exceptional is our culture. it's got rot, entitlement, but at its core, it's one of the most unique to ever grace this planet. the other aspect is elon bringing up sports. i know something about this. i think this is interesting. he talked about, like, pro sports, elon did. we get this basketball player from if france or serbia. here's what i'd say to toe loan on that. professional sports does not maintain a culture, it just doesn't. it's in pursuit of championships. and i u

just listen to the two of them on bannon's old radio show in march of 2015 before trump was even the republican nominee. take a listen. >> they see these oligarchs down there with 54 private jets and they're not down there for their health. there called together by karl rove and it's a stop trump movement. it's a stop trump movement because they want unlimited h1 b visas. isn't the beating heart of this problem right now, the real beating heart of it, of what we've got to get sorted right here, is not illegal immigration, as horrific as that is, and it's horrific, it's only a problem we've looked the other way on this legal immigration that's kind of overwhelmed the country? >> the history of america is that an emigration on period is followed by an immigration off the distal. >> to be very clear there, right, h1 b visas, legal immigration and immigration off period, they have a pretty clear vision. no one is going to be the one writing that border bill. those two factions of the republican party with pretty profoundly different views are at each other's throats about what to do with