joining us now, cnn political and global affairs analyst and axios reporter barak ravid. barak, always good to see you. i want to start with these talks that we're learning about. what do you think we can expect on monday and kind of set the scene with the dynamics as we go into these. >> good afternoon jessica. i think that the main. >> issue that. >> influenced the talks. >> over the last week. >> was the fact. >> that the. u.s. decided. >> to go and. >> speak directly with. >> hamas, and i think that. sort of like... >> you know, rock. >> the. >> boat.. of this. >> these, these negotiations were in sort of a stalemate. i think we still don't have a deal. we still don't have a breakthrough. but the fact that. >> the israelis. >> after something like 2 or 3 weeks, finally agreed to go to doha and to actually negotiate on extension of this deal and on a possible phase two of this deal is a major development. >> and so, if i understand you correctly, it seems like what you're saying is that that that the u.s. directly engaging with hamas might have shaken them, the israelis

here with us now is barak ravid, the axios reporter who broke the story. , tell us what you learned and how these talks came together. >> good afternoon. >> this talk started. several weeks ago. >> when u.s. >> hostages envoy adam boehler. >> went to. >> doha. >> the capital of qatar, and. >> met with several hamas officials. there have been several meetings between boehler and hamas officials over the last. 2 or 3 weeks. the last one was earlier this week. he met with khalil al-hayya, who is the head of hamas's negotiation team and is the, you know, in practice is the leader of hamas's political wing. and in those meetings, they discussed, first, the americans that are still held by hamas. one of them is alive, edan alexander, but another four americans who are dead and their bodies are being held by hamas. but they also discussed something broader how to use a possible release of those americans as an opening for a broader deal and a long term truce that will, in effect, end the war in gaza. >> so can you talk to us about the timing? you said it was a few

axios reporter barak ravid is reporting the top israeli official, ron dermer, strongly discouraged you from talking directly with hamas. he said it was a tense phone call. tell us about that. do you understand why netanyahu, dermer and others might be upset? >> i do understand i spoke with ron, and i'm sympathetic. he has someone that he doesn't know well, making direct contact with hamas. maybe i would see them and say, look, they don't have horns growing out of their head. they're actually guys like us. they're pretty nice guys. so he doesn't know me. and there are big stakes. he lives in a country where if it sets certain precedents, then it will hurt or help a lot of other people. so i understand the consternation and the concern, and i wasn't upset at the same time, we're the united states. we're not an agent of israel. we have specific interests at play. and we did communicate back and forth. we had very specific parameters by which we fell. and the reality is what i wanted to do is jump start some negotiations that were in a very fragile place. and i wanted to say to hamas, what

axios barak ravid reports that trump's administration has been negotiating directly with hamas, bothgaza, and on the possibility of a broader deal. of course, as you can imagine, this news did not go well with the israeli government. benjamin netanyahu's top aide, ron dermer, reportedly erupted in a call with trump's hostage envoy objecting to the talks and to making proposals without israel's consent. and this followed a report by israeli journalist ronen bergman that israel leaked information about america's direct talks with hamas in attempts to sabotage those talks. think about that for a moment. you have the israeli government totally reliant on american weapons and diplomatic support and cover, telling america not to make proposals to hamas, a group holding an american hostage without israeli consent. and it really raises the question, who's the actual superpower in this relationship? and the fact that the trump administration now sees the netanyahu government as, quote, sabotaging their cease fire and hostage release talks is important. it seemed like every week we saw reports

cnn political and global affairs analyst barak ravid says he believes the u.s. decision to speak directly to hamas this week helped restart negotiations. >> prime minister netanyahu realized that he lost control over the process. and the reason he lost control is because he didn't do anything. and when you don't do anything, other people do other things, and it took him time to realize it because he thought that not doing anything about phase two of this deal will only allow him to resume the war. and he found out that donald trump actually wants to get the hostages back home. and for that, he's willing to talk directly to hamas. and that really rocked the boat for the israelis and for netanyahu, because he did not see it coming. >> well, an independent monitoring group says hundreds of people have been killed in syria since thursday when fighting erupted between government forces and supporters of ousted former president bashar al-assad. the uk based syrian network for human rights says at least 311 people have died, but warned that the death toll is likely, qu

barak ravid, who initially broke the story about this, was saying he saw some parallels to how you see trump treating ukraine, trying to drive it to the bargaining table. does does hamas feel that pressure? >> it depends where in the pecking order you are. if you're one of the leaders in hamas who might be able to get, um, exit to somewhere in the gulf and live on, you probably are more open to negotiation. maybe, but the rank and file of hamas know that there's no escape for them. they're probably just willing to fight, especially since this expulsion of all the palestinians of gaza plan is still on the white house. plans for the future of the middle east. >> still on the whiteboard. all right, kim dozier, thank you so much. we appreciate it. ahead is wall street souring on elon musk. how tesla's share price and sales have dropped since he began helping the president take a chainsaw to the federal government. >> learn how to experiment with new technologies without getting played by them. listen to terms of service with me. clare duffy. >> available now on spotify or. >> wherever you

cnn political and global affairs analyst barak ravid says he believes the u.s.ision to speak directly to hamas this week helped restart negotiations. >> prime minister netanyahu realized that he lost control over the process, and the reason he lost control is because he didn't do anything. and when you don't do anything, other people do other things, and it took him time to realize it because he thought that not doing anything about phase two of this deal will only allow him to resume the war. and he found out that donald trump actually wants to get the hostages back home. and for that, he's willing to talk directly to hamas. and that really rocked the boat for the israelis and for netanyahu, because he did not see it coming. >> well, france, germany, italy and the united kingdom are backing a gaza reconstruction plan proposed by arab states. the four countries say the $53 billion proposal shows a realistic path forward. it would aim to have gaza rebuilt in five years and allow about 2 million palestinians to remain. they also said that hamas should not be invol