and they have the bar gina and baramus. they were multicultural, different issues, they learned from the experts that they studied theology, they found so many things that they wanted to do in a pastoral way that they took charge of the council. and some of the documents were prepared by the vatican congregations were rejected because they were too legalistic and a whole new approach came thanks to what these men were experiencing as church people. and they did an extra job. >> i want to ask you too, when we're talking about i mean, vatican ii is a name of the church, when you say vatican ii people know it, i'm talking about people from all faiths or no faith. but we don't really -- we really don't know the details. it's a brand thing. '62 to 65 you were ordained in 62, there was seminary in anticipation of i guess this coming. it was planned for a couple years, and yet it was not implemented until 1969. so for seven years we continued, or whatever it was, four years, right? >> how was that? >> well, the thing was we had co