joining us now barbara mcquade, matt miller, msnbc contributor, and michael izzakoff. >> barbara, there's so many points to go over here, and i'm happy to have you take your pick. but working backwards from this idea of perjury trap, which is now -- this is now rudy giuliani's big talking point, is that the special prosecutor is going to trap him, going to somehow force the president of the united states to commit perjury, as if donald trump has absolutely no control over his own ability to tell the truth. >> it's really nonsense, the phrase perjury trap is used by prosecutors to mean calling someone before the grand jury when you have no legitimate purpose for doing so. the only reason you called them is not that you have any legitimate questions but solely to catch them in a lie. it's prohibited under department of justice policy. there's lots of questions that bob mueller wants to ask president trump. and it's president trump's decision whether he wants to tell the truth or not. so any perjury would be in the control of the president. there may be strategic reasons not to choose to sit

remaining with us is our favorite former feds, barbara mcquade.arbara, let me use that law degree you have and start on a legal basis. is this a serious case? and my second question is, why file this in new york if the lawyer and client are mostly l.a.-based, if the president's offensive tweet was issued in washington, why has it been filed here? >> yeah, so, first, is this a real case. i think it is. you know, it's a little bit ironic as well because it's president trump who is always decrying the definite nation laws and wants to change it to make it easier for people to file defamation lawsuits so his wish has come true here in this case. i think it is. he's made a statement accusing her of lying publicly. is that the sole motive here, to vindicate ms. daniels' reputation? i don't know. it may be that putting additional pressure on president trump creates some leverage that might help them resolve the other case. it might help them with a global resolution to the two cases, sometimes that happens when you increase the pressure. so, that may be

attorney barbara mcquade, and here on set with us msnbc analyst eli stokols who has been covering the white house since day one. kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter for the boston herald, also msnbc analyst. ashley parker, take me inside the current white house state of mind about rudy giuliani as a public face of donald trump's legal lollapalooza of woes. >> sure. if you remember back a week or tua go whether he first came on, there was some concern inside the white house of people who were worried about sort of if he was the right lawyer and legal person for the job. but at the time they all sort of said, you know, we also expect him to be a public face of the administration's legal team on television. and we think he will do a good job in that role. the president wanted an attack dog and that is a roele juniang is coming on to fill. he is a public face and certainly an attack dog. in addition to not being the right legal mind for the job, he is also not the right public face because if you're following this, giuliani is going on television. the first time he went on with tha

barbara mcquade, former federal prosecutor, and deanna fill la pain co, a form investigator. ron klain, the speculation continues of where michael avenatti got this information. there's one expert quoted in one report saying that this is the kind of information that could be obtained from one of those suspicious activity reports or from a series of suspicious activity reports about bank transactions but so far it's michael avenatti leading the way on this. >> it is. and, you know, he will, i imagine that judge wood will order him to disclose the source of this information and he'll have to do so. if indeed it did come from an illegally disclosed sar, the person who disclosed it will be in trouble. as you said earlier the fundamental point from the broader perspective here is the information he put forward turned out to be 99.6% accurate. who could have imagined just a few days ago that the single least slimy transaction would be paying a former adult star $130,000 to be quiet about her affair with the president. what is piling up is a powerful tale of corruption and undisclos

barbara mcquade and that frank figliuzzi all are my favorites, all of are msnbc analyst contributors and all are on the hook to help us figure out what's going on in that building. >>> phil rucker, let's start with you. emmet flood not a household name, but it seems to me the significance is, one, white house don mcgahn at the center of every flash point known to be under scrutiny by bob mueller, eager to lineup a replacement for himself. >> yeah, i think you nailed it, nicolle. this is a signal that the trump legal strategy is going to become much more aggressive and confrontational with mueller. there is an expectation that there is going to be less sort of cooperation and providing documents and more push back, pushing back against this idea of an interview, pushing back against the scope of the questions that were outlined earlier this week. and potentially this could end up in courts with litigation and talking to attorneys who are sort of around this whole issue. they say that flood is just the kind of person the president needs to help him navigate a much more combative, much

also with us, barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of the state of michigan, and jeremy bash, former chief of staff at cia and the pentagon, former chief counsel to house intel as well, and all four of our leadoff guests thankfully are msnbc analysts. michael, i'd like to begin with you. i ain't going to ask you who gave you these because you're not going to answer. so i will ask you how did this list of questions come to be compiled? >> so there have been a lot of negotiations over the past few months between the president's lawyers and the special counsel. and what happened was in march, the special counsel was trying to make an argument to the president's lawyer that he should do the interview. and they brought the president's lawyers in, and they went through with them all of the different matters they wanted to question the president about. the president's lawyers took extensive notes on that and compiled this list of questions. when they looked at it, they thought it was troubling. they thought

attorney barbara mcquade. first your reaction to the breaking news today the president has potentially been referred to deputy attorney general rosenstein for committing a crime. >> well, nicolle, the fact of the matter is that these folks can't get their stories straight and they can't figure out what they want to do, what they should be doing is telling the truth and they should have stole the truth a long time ago. this disclosure today proves the following. michael cohen has been lying to the american people for months. david schwartz, the individual who came on national television repeatedly on many networks and stated that the president never reimbursed -- reimbursed the payment and knew nothing about it is lying to the american people. mr. giuliani as recently as a week ago has been lying to the american people about how this occurred and when it occurred because, according to the disclosure today, it occurred back in 2017. mr. trump lied to the american people when he was on board air force one on vide

joining us now is barbara mcquade.hear. >> thank you, rachel. >> more breaking news, it's like you're an angel who brings it with you every time we book you. here's how i feel, the he said, he said, he said, oops we were all lying we'll have another story tomorrow. this lying circus about the michael cohen and the payment, i feel it's exhausting. as you're watching this as a former prosecutor, are you in wait and see mode in terms of what's important information in this story or if i's shown the president had knowledge will that be important? >> the public statements are not necessarily illegal. i think at some point you hope the american public wants to hold someone accountable who lies to them repeatedly, but i think the shifting stories matter to a prosecutor. that suggests some sort of consciousness of guilt, there's something to be hidden here. maybe it's the embarrassment of having the relationship with a porn star is what's hidden. but when someone changes their story so frequently that sets off red flags for a

and because we need a lawyer and a damn good one, barbara mcquade is back with us, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. all are msnbc analysts. jonathan, since we dropped your name, we know rudy's feelings about trump. what are trump's feelings about rudy, do we think? >> at this moment, he does appreciate -- >> at 11:07 eastern -- >> ask me again at 11:09. at this moment he does appreciate that the president -- that the former mayor is sort of an attack dog in the media, that he is out there. he's grabbing headlines. he's defending him. >> that he is. >> he's defending him, and he's taking a much more aggressive tact than some of his other lawyers have done. that said, as our reporting indicates, he's also growing frustrated. we saw those video clips there. pretty muddled answers suggesting that the president couldn't be trusted to tell the truth about the russia probe if he sat down with mueller. suggesting there may be more women that michael cohen has paid off to keep quiet a la stormy daniels. these are things that have not set well with the president

. >> barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney in michigan. thank you, barb.ll be right back. stay with us. ♪[upbeat music] ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ let your inner light loose with one a day women's. transitions™ ♪ a complete multivitamin specially formulated with key nutrients plus vitamin d for bone health support. your one a day is showing. >>> happy friday night. thank you for being with us tonight i hope you have a wonder weekend. now it's time for the last word with ally velshi. >> thank you great to see you. i hope you have a great weekend. >> i will. >> i'm ally velshi in for lawrence o'donnell. we have trump's tangled web from russia collusion, to the president's tortured relationship with the truth we'll look at it all over the