should reparations take place and if so what would that look like joining us to discuss this are barbara rand's be professor of african-american studies at the university of illinois chicago and author of making black lives matter and jared ball professor of communication and afrikaans studies at morgan state university and the author of the myth and propaganda of black buying power i want to thank you both for joining me in the arena barbara i want to start with you what does it mean when we say reparations and i know that's a broad question people have different ideas about what that means we can you explain a little bit and your estimation of how what reparations is a what it should be and how it would work. yeah i mean i think that's the area of of debate and struggle ray there are a number of models for reparations all of them limited in problematic if you will we think of reparations as a repair as redress for past harm and past grievance so the reason i think the reparations demand is a useful one in in the constellation of tactics that we might use in the black freedom movement is that

interesting, you go all the way back to the motion picture alliance back in the day, ayn rand, walt disney, gary cooper, barbaraanda out of the movies because there's enough bad guys. neil: i'm not out to make them saints. i will say some movies go a little far like in tomorrow never die when you see it's an evil british media baron, i'm thinking evil -- [laughter] all right, stop. but i'm wondering where this goes. because, you know, this has gone on since this is a wonderful life, mr. potter, the evil banker. i get that. and they're very simple to relay black and white stories, but i think it does partly sway go after the business guys to get your taxes. it does feed even whether we know it or not a subliminal anti-business sense. and believe me, and i think you kind of touched on it, mark, some of these companies get their just desserts because some of them go over the top. but i really believe most do not. and maybe that's my naive view of this, but i think hollywood would be well served just showing a little bit more balance. your thoughts. >> well, absolutely. you know, you mention -- carol mentioned ayn